Ponting's solution: Bat second

[pup11]

Ponting has come up with a simple solution to end his team's habit of failing to defend massive totals- bat second. "We're going to come up against some small grounds in the WC, so the consideration of batting second in odi cricket is something to think about," Ponting told the media. IMO its a stupid statement, if your bowlers can't defend such huge targets then that needs to be sorted out.

 

[Slow Love™]

He may just be kidding, but I don't think it's stupid at all. Yes, Australia really need to sort out their problem defending large totals, but it's a tournament that gets played once every four years, and we should be giving ourselves the best chance to win. We're very good chasers, so why not?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I generally feel that Australia is a better team setting a total than chasing one, but this WC is one where it's expected teams will push the boundaries of what a "good total" is, and if you're talking about a flat wicket on a small ground and potential 350+ scores, it's probably better to be batting second. As we've seen recently, Australia can struggle to defend a big total, and it's difficult to determine exactly what a good score is when conditions are friendly enough for batting.

 

[Speersy]

... it's difficult to determine exactly what a good score is when conditions are friendly enough for batting.

Exactly why I think it is not a bad comment by Ponting at all, you just don't know these days what score is safe.

 

[pup11]

I don't think the aussie are good chasers, except the 292 they chased down against NZ at the MCG, i can't recall the last time we chased down a big target , so the solution is that our bowlers need to make sure we don't fail defending such massive totals ever again.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I don't really see why Ponting needed to come out and say this in the press, TBH. It's a perfectly viable tactic, many teams prefer to chase - but why admit that you don't trust your bowlers to defend a total? Surely it's not going to fill them with confidence, and it's only going to make the opposition more likely to put you into bat.

Should have just kept quiet and batted second anyway - opposition wouldn't have had the forewarning to choose to chase, and the bowlers wouldn't know he doesn't trust them. Strange.

 

[chaminda_00]

Didn't they lose a couple games against England batting 2nd in the CB series and collaspe in a few other games batting 2nd for Hussey to save them in recently. Australia have always had a history of losing quick wickets chasing and relying on the likes of Beven, Hussey etc to get them out of trouble. Teams that are good chasing totals recently have been team that bat down to 8 or 9, with a lot of bowling all rounder i.e NZ and SA. Lee and Hogg are good batsmen, but i would say the Kiwis and South African are more suited to chasing total due to their depth in batting.

 

[pup11]

The pitches in Caribbean get slower and lower as the games moves on so the team batting second most of the time find batting pretty difficult.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Agree with Chaminda. To attempt to chase down these big totals, you need to have the depth to back yourself to have a dinkum crack straight away, with the confidence that no. 7 and below are good for 100+ of the runs. I'm not sure if Australia has that, especially with Lee out.

 

[Slow Love™]

I don't really see why Ponting needed to come out and say this in the press, TBH. It's a perfectly viable tactic, many teams prefer to chase - but why admit that you don't trust your bowlers to defend a total? Surely it's not going to fill them with confidence, and it's only going to make the opposition more likely to put you into bat.

Should have just kept quiet and batted second anyway - opposition wouldn't have had the forewarning to choose to chase, and the bowlers wouldn't know he doesn't trust them. Strange.

Yeah, agreed, unless he's playing funny buggers. But I'm sure the bowlers have their doubts about themselves in recent times, and some of them have had to address the issue in the press anyway, so I don't think he necessarily did a lot of harm there.

It's all very well for people to say that Australia must deal with it's issues defending large totals, and that's obviously true - but it's clearly not been an easy or simple issue to solve, so I don't really see the problem with employing some alternative strategies, given that our most identifiable weakness seems to be defending totals on grounds that yield very high scores. TBH I've been frustrated at times at our unwillingness to give it more of a try.

 

[pup11]

Aussies have been very poor chasers in my book, anything around or above 250 they have always struggeled to chase it down. But due to strength of their bowling such instances have been very few as not many team succeeded in getting close to 250 or above against the aussies, the situation is dire atm because the bowlers have looked out of sorts resulting in such humiliating defeats.

 

[FRAZ]

He may just be kidding, but I don't think it's stupid at all. Yes, Australia really need to sort out their problem defending large totals, but it's a tournament that gets played once every four years, and we should be giving ourselves the best chance to win. We're very good chasers, so why not?

I guess their bowling needs some serious home work . They will have to bring some quality variation in the attack . Fast mediums / Fast balls coming at the same length gives the time to batsmen to adjust and for my liking bowlers with a slight pace often go for plenty on batting pitches . One of the few bowlers whom I would like to bowl on batting paradise are Saqlain , Pollock ,Murali and Shane Warne . They keep on experimenting different bits e.g. altering the line , changing the length and variations in the speed . Such things are extremely necessary for getting a mis-timed edge from the flat track bullies . Saqlain was an excellent bowler and he was a wonderful variation in the Pakistani attack .
I mean having almost similar type of bowlers in the team (doesn't matter how good are they) often gives advantage to the other team . Imran once said that even if you make tons of runs ,if you don't have excellent bowlers to defend it , any thing is achievable on international level !!

 

[Slow Love™]

Just thinking about this some more... I think opposition teams are benefitting in some cases from a "nothing to lose" attitude that comes from the kind of RR you have to maintain chasing a big target against the best team in the world - and with that maybe you lose a bit of the pressure the bowlers may generally be able to exert. Either way our bowlers clearly have a problem regardless, in this situation, when they seem fairly capable of knocking over the same opposition in the first innings either quite cheaply or for manageable targets, even on some pretty good surfaces.

Anyhow, if I was Ponting I wouldn't seek to bat second every game, but I might consider it against particular teams, ie NZ and SAF. IMO it's a trade-off between their preferences and ours.

I just don't really have the time for the research, but does anyone have any figures on how we've fared say, over the last 2 years or so chasing high totals? Both in terms of how high the totals get that we have to chase, and how we do when it is high (say, 280+). I have a feeling we don't concede that many mammoth totals bowling first anyhow, but I could easily be mistaken.

Having a look back previous to the Chappell/Hadlee debacle where we obviously lost all 3 games batting first, at the CB series (if I've made an error, I'll be happy to be corrected on this, I did it pretty quickly), I've got us winning 6 times (mostly fairly comfortably) chasing, and losing 2. We won 2 batting first (one was fairly close with our bowlers losing it and Oram running rampant) and lost 1. Against NZ only we won 2 times batting first (though one of those games NZ did score 330 odd and Oram really pushed) and 2 chasing (one of them chasing 291 quite comfortably) - obviously we didn't lose any. Haven't really checked the CT, though we obviously dropped a game chasing there to the West Indians. I just wonder if we're really at a significant disadvantage results-wise chasing in recent years.

Of course, the salient point here will be about conditions conducive to big totals, in the end. I might just be developing a phobia based around other teams chasing down whatever we get.

 

[pup11]

At this point of time some soul-searching needs to done within the aussie bowlers, these are not targets of 270 or 280 odd runs that are being chased down, but targets well over 330 are being chased down with some balls to spare so thats pathetic. So rather than finding ways to solve that problem, how can the aussie think of taking the easy way out of this problem.

 

[age_master]

Aussies have been very poor chasers in my book, anything around or above 250 they have always struggeled to chase it down. But due to strength of their bowling such instances have been very few as not many team succeeded in getting close to 250 or above against the aussies, the situation is dire atm because the bowlers have looked out of sorts resulting in such humiliating defeats.

generally i agree, but chasing really really big totals is different to chasing big totals. I think the batting team will know that they are not expected to win and tend to play more freely. Players like McMillan over that last week have shown what that can do.

 

[FRAZ]

generally i agree, but chasing really really big totals is different to chasing big totals. I think the batting team will know that they are not expected to win and tend to play more freely. Players like McMillan over that last week have shown what that can do.

McCullam was as good as McMillan ... What a super inning by this kiwi . Just amazing and live fun on one side , I have even seen the whole repeat broadcast of the match . Super performance !

 

[Poker Boy]

This is based on one assumption that we don't know about - that the pitches will be flat. But there are a lot of new venues in this WC - and if the evidence of chester-le-Street and the rosebowl is any guide new squares = uneven bounce. In which case you bat first as that will get worse. if I was a captain I'd still be flexible and look at each pitch on its merit. PS - last big Aussie run chase I remember - PE 2002 (ODI record at the time I think)

 

[Richard]

Didn't they lose a couple games against England batting 2nd in the CB series and collaspe in a few other games batting 2nd for Hussey to save them in recently. Australia have always had a history of losing quick wickets chasing ^^^^^^ and relying on the likes of Beven, Hussey etc to get them out of trouble.

I'd insert a "small targets" where the ^^^^^.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, agreed, unless he's playing funny buggers.

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Richard]

Aussies have been very poor chasers in my book, anything around or above 250 they have always struggeled to chase it down. But due to strength of their bowling such instances have been very few as not many team succeeded in getting close to 250 or above against the aussies, the situation is dire atm because the bowlers have looked out of sorts resulting in such humiliating defeats.

W134, L40

Doesn't seem too bad to me.