Ponting better than Sachin : Ian Chappell

[bagapath]

Just some stats for recent years. Since July 2007 Tendulkar has played 22 tests at an average of 50. In that same period Ponting has played 26 tests at an average of 44. So not much to choose but Sachin has the edge.

Incidentally Ponting's peak period was from 2002 to 2006 ( not 03-07 as I had mentioned earlier). He averaged 72 over those years.

in the last two years (since oct 16,2007)

RT Ponting 26 46 1 1977 158 43.93 3218 61.43 5 12 3 221 9
SR Tendulkar 19 35 4 1623 160 52.35 2740 59.23 5 8 1 196 9

ricky was clearly ahead of sachin in 2004, 05 and 06. tendulkar regained the lost ground and then moved ahead of ponting steadily in the past two seasons.

 

[Ikki]

Yeh Sachin has been better in the past two years. If Ricky had continued in the same form he'd probably be averaging 60+ now over his career. I think he turned a corner in England and is looking good again though. I'm really craving Test cricket at the moment.

 

[Uppercut]

am just guesstimating from the difference in aggregate averages for respective eras and the individual averages of the players in discussion.

Haha, iffy, tstl. If you wanted to analyse the numbers in that way, I suspect Ponting would actually come out marginally on top. But it wouldn't prove anything. For me, they're very close. It's a matter of preference- I often can't make up my mind- and at the moment I'm leaning towards Sachin.

The people I disagree with are those that believe Sachin is in a different league. I put them on very much the same level.

off topic question: is lara a great batsman despite playing in a weak team or because of it? in other words, would he have played with more freedom if he were part of a more successful unit or would he have lost interest and wasted away his talent playing careless cricket? both sachin and ricky have demonstrated so many times that they could score bucketful of runs irrespective of their team's position in the game. wonder how lara would have done if he had played in steve waugh's team.

Interesting thought. I've spoken to quite a few fans from the Caribbean who feel that Lara never did enough to help the West Indies win matches (barring one or two of his special innings). That there was always a lot of hype around Lara entering a series, and he'd tend to get a fifty here and there then a big one when his team were 2-0 down. I often get an impression of, as well as pride obviously, mild dissatisfaction with Lara from the people who supported his team.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it.

 

[Richard]

off topic question: is lara a great batsman despite playing in a weak team or because of it? in other words, would he have played with more freedom if he were part of a more successful unit or would he have lost interest and wasted away his talent playing careless cricket? both sachin and ricky have demonstrated so many times that they could score bucketful of runs irrespective of their team's position in the game. wonder how lara would have done if he had played in steve waugh's team.

Such questions are impossible to answer and always will be. I always find it rather -worthy when people try to argue that someone would've done better\worse in a weaker\stronger side. There are advantages and disadvantages to being a bowler and batsman in a stronger side and advantages and disadvantages to being a bowler and batsman in a weaker side. In my book, they all cancel each-other out, and there's no point saying "well he played in a strong\weak side so his figures would've been different if he had played in a weak\strong one".

 

[Black_Warrior]

Interesting thought. I've spoken to quite a few fans from the Caribbean who feel that Lara never did enough to help the West Indies win matches (barring one or two of his special innings). That there was always a lot of hype around Lara entering a series, and he'd tend to get a fifty here and there then a big one when his team were 2-0 down. I often get an impression of, as well as pride obviously, mild dissatisfaction with Lara from the people who supported his team.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it.

Yes I remember a piece written by Ridley Jacobs a few years back where he called Lara a selfish player and someone who cared more about his own glory than the team. I also have a feeling although I might be wrong in this that Michael Holding is not too big a fan of Lara either..just an impression I got based on his commentary on WI matches.
Also, many West Indies fans were not too fan with his knock of 400 either while the world was going crazy because according to them, he did nothing when Harmison destroyed WI and England won the series 3-0 and came up with a knock when the series was over, and by batting for so long, ruined any possible chances of a consolation win. Anyways, these are not my opinions, just views I have heard over the years.

 

[Richard]

I realise they're not your opinions, but the idea that Lara damaged West Indies' chances of victory in that ARG game in 2004 by batting for the record is plain nonsensical - that game, in common with so many at The ARG, had a chance of a result of approximately zero; England ultimately saved it with consummate ease. Lara could do whatever he wanted, he was not under any circumstance bar some utterly dreadful England batting going to lead his side to a win.

Some of the criticisms of Lara from within West Indies are, frankly, plain wrong-headed, and smack of expecting far too much of a player. England fans had a tendency to do something not dissimilar with Michael Atherton, and as a result fail to appreciate quite how good he was - which was obviously far, far less good than Lara, before anyone gets excited there. It's basically "we lost so Lara's to blame because he didn't score 250 every innings". The idea of batsmen being selfish and damaging the team's chances rarely has much substance - in order to do best for himself and the team a batsman should aim to score as many runs as possible. If someone knew via insider's knowledge that Lara was more interested in his own feats than the team then that's a slightly different matter, because that does indicate selfishness, but it still doesn't mean he wasn't likely to be trying his best, because every single time Lara walked to the crease it was best for both him and his team that he scored as many runs as possible.

 

[0RI0N]

Yeh Sachin has been better in the past two years. If Ricky had continued in the same form he'd probably be averaging 60+ now over his career. I think he turned a corner in England and is looking good again though. I'm really craving Test cricket at the moment.

Ikki agree.
I think the fire's back.
IF he had led Oz to a Ashes win in England he probably would have called it time on his career in the next year because of this:
WC won check check
CT won check check
5 - 0 win vs Eng check
Test career fulfilled
Loosing the Ashes has ignited the fire within.This coupled with the fact that the current 0z team has a few players that are quite new has probably convinced him that his mission as OZ captain isn't quite finished yet.
Tendulkar has edged it in the last few years,though as stated before, neither has been anywhere near their best.

 

[bagapath]

Tendulkar has edged it in the last few years,though as stated before, neither has been anywhere near their best.

in sachin's case, he may never play in that level again. he may probably suffer another mild slump before his eventual retirement in 2011.

ponting may get back very close to his best. i expect him to plunder runs against all opponents, score hundreds at will, go past sachin's aggregate of runs & centuries and then play his last series in india, fail once again and leave the game as one of the all time greats.

 

[Shri]

in sachin's case, he may never play in that level again. he may probably suffer another mild slump before his eventual retirement in 2011.

ponting may get back very close to his best. i expect him to plunder runs against all opponents, score hundreds at will, go past sachin's aggregate of runs & centuries and then play his last series in india, fail once again and leave the game as one of the all time greats.

 

[Jono]

I've spoken to quite a few fans from the Caribbean who feel that Lara never did enough to help the West Indies win matches (barring one or two of his special innings). That there was always a lot of hype around Lara entering a series, and he'd tend to get a fifty here and there then a big one when his team were 2-0 down. I often get an impression of, as well as pride obviously, mild dissatisfaction with Lara from the people who supported his team.

Funny, considering most people who argue in favour of Lara in the famous Lara vs. Sachin debates (in my opinion, far worse than Ponting vs. Sachin), say Lara played more match-winning innings than Sachin as the key point where Lara has the edge.

Really interesting.

 

[Jono]

ponting may get back very close to his best. i expect him to plunder runs against all opponents, score hundreds at will, go past sachin's aggregate of runs & centuries and then play his last series in india, fail once again and leave the game as one of the all time greats.

You think Ponting will pass Sachin's aggregate test runs if they retire at the same (or similar) time?

Note: This isn't a question as to whether he will actually pass Sachin, there's a separate thread for that. What I'm basically getting at is that, in the next 2-3 years (you'd think the final years) of their test careers, do you see Ponting comfortably outscoring Sachin to the extent where he passes Sachin whilst Sachin is still playing, or only months after his retirement?

I don't. I think that if Ponting is to pass Sachin, he has to play at least 18 months longer than Sachin. There's no secret that much of Sachin's slump surrounded his injuries (not all of it of course, at times he was just playing badly), and since he's generally passed the elbow and back problems, he should be toe-to-toe with Ponting you'd think.

 

[Ikki]

Well, if Ponting gets back to what he was doing pre 2007 he could do it. I doubt it though, will probably have to play on longer.

 

[asty80]

Irrespective of what they do now till the end of their career,
When Ponting retires, he will be known as the greatest australian batsman since Bradman.
When Sachin retires, he will be known as the greatest batsman since Bradman.

 

[Ikki]

I doubt it. Neither have any real claim to those titles over the names that are usually discussed even now.

Is Ponting better than Chappell? Is Tendulkar for that matter? Are they better than Richards, Sobers, Hammond and many others? It's highly debatable.

 

[silentstriker]

Is Ponting better than Chappell?

No.

Is Tendulkar for that matter?

Maybe, it's iffy.

Are they better than Richards, Sobers, Hammond and many others? It's highly debatable.

One of them is better than two of those, the other not better than any.

So in conclusion, no, I don't think either will go down as the #2nd best since Bradman, nor 2nd best Australian since Bradman.

 

[honestbharani]

Funny, considering most people who argue in favour of Lara in the famous Lara vs. Sachin debates (in my opinion, far worse than Ponting vs. Sachin), say Lara played more match-winning innings than Sachin as the key point where Lara has the edge.

Really interesting.

To me, it is really stupid.. Having watched almost every game of the Windies during Lara's time, I can say without hesitation that the ONLY times Windies EVER looked like competing and winning was when Lara was going well. And as for performing in test matches where nothing is on the stake, I don't wanna go too deep into the stats but off the top of my head, most of his best knocks came in LIVE test matches.


The people UC is referring to are probably people who are rabid Windies fans who enjoy having someone to blame for the mess they are in... The opinion UC says they expressed is stupid and unknowledgable to say the least...

 

[honestbharani]

Irrespective of what they do now till the end of their career,
When Ponting retires, he will be known as the greatest australian batsman since Bradman.
When Sachin retires, he will be known as the greatest batsman since Bradman.

wrong on both counts for me..

 

[honestbharani]

wrong on both counts for me..

AS test batsmen:


1. Lara

2. Sachin


3. Ponting



As ODI Batsmen:

1. Sachin
2. Ponting




3. Lara

 

[Jono]

To me, it is really stupid.. Having watched almost every game of the Windies during Lara's time, I can say without hesitation that the ONLY times Windies EVER looked like competing and winning was when Lara was going well. And as for performing in test matches where nothing is on the stake, I don't wanna go too deep into the stats but off the top of my head, most of his best knocks came in LIVE test matches.


The people UC is referring to are probably people who are rabid Windies fans who enjoy having someone to blame for the mess they are in... The opinion UC says they expressed is stupid and unknowledgable to say the least...

1. I agree with you.
2. I would have bet my life that you were going to quote reply to my post.


I reckon you have a Lara radar

 

[honestbharani]

1. I agree with you.
2. I would have bet my life that you were going to quote reply to my post.


I reckon you have a Lara radar

lol..


I wud have participated earlier in the SRT Vs Punter debate but I don't want to feel frustrated on Diwali..