Playing Selector: Dream ODI XI

[morgieb]

McGrath was a class above Pollock as an ODI bowler but I could see an argument to pick him as the all rounder batting #7.

Realistically the two best ODI quicks are McGrath and Gartner by a country mile. The third best is Akram.

Murali and Warne in ODI cricket aren't far apart - Warne having a shorter career but standing up more at key times, while Murali was consistently excellent. So I'd take Warne for his batting given I already have two bunnies in McGrath and Garner.

Averaging 13 isn't terrible for a number 9 who played the majority of their ODI cricket in the 90s.

An ODI team is not simply a matter of "pick the best 4 bowlers, 6 batsmen and wicketkeeper" like test cricket is. There are a lot more team balance considerations.

Now if you said "who are the best 11 ODI cricketers" you'd get a different answer again. Saqlain surely has to enter into the equation.

In fact, here are my top ODI batsmen, quicks, keepers and spinners:

Richards
Bevan
Tendulkar
Kohli
Ponting
Lara

Garner
McGrath
Akram
Ambrose
Donald

Gilchrist
Dhoni
??? I really don't know who to rate next, there were many fine keepers but freq who stood out

Warne
Murali
Saqlain
Kumble
Hogg
Peter Taylor*

*honorable mention

No room for de Villiers?

Hard to really make a case for Gilchrist > Dhoni too, for me picking Gilchrist is more of a balance issue rather than an ability one.

 

[stephen]

No room for de Villiers?

Hard to really make a case for Gilchrist > Dhoni too, for me picking Gilchrist is more of a balance issue rather than an ability one.

Knew I'd forget someone. De Villiers slots in just above Ponting in my mind.

Gilchrist and Dhoni are a coin flip - need an opener, pick Gilchrist. Need a middle order bat, pick Dhoni.

 

[ankitj]

Below is my all time ODI XI. Fairly fixed since de Villiers and Kohli established themselves as ATG players. Only constable spot is now Watson's. I use opener's spot to slot the all rounder because that's where the opportunity cost is lowest. Jayasuriya could've been an option but batting averages matter to me fair bit.

Sachin Tendulkar
Shane Watson
Virat Kohli
Viv Richards
AB de Villiers
Michael Bevan
MS Dhoni +*
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

 

[Red]

Bevan is still ridiculously overrated in this format.

Instead of comparing him on averages, compare him on runs per innings with most other batsmen of his era.

He had an extraordinary number of not outs which have greatly contributed to his myth.

 

[ankitj]

Just to further illustrate the point of Pollock's miserness and his strong claim to these XIs, just pulled top economy rates in 2000s:. Cricket Records | Records | 2000s | One-Day Internationals | Best economy rates | ESPNcricinfo

Pollock is slightly but clearly in front of Murali and McGrath who are both closely lumped together. And given Pollock was a handful with the bat, it is actually surprising how little consideration he gets in ATG ODI discussions.

 

[stephen]

Pollock gets eclipsed by Klusener for the all rounder slot, which is a shame because he was an absolute gun.

 

[ankitj]

Pollock has a claim as a specialist bowler whose batting is a bonus. He won't replace Klusener or Watson or Kapil or Jayasuriya in the team.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Bevan is still ridiculously overrated in this format.

Instead of comparing him on averages, compare him on runs per innings with most other batsmen of his era.

He had an extraordinary number of not outs which have greatly contributed to his myth.

Beven was the best finisher before the emergence of Dhoni.
Beven was the man for crisis.

Dhoni = Beven + attacking ability

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Pollock has a claim as a specialist bowler whose batting is a bonus. He won't replace Klusener or Watson or Kapil or Jayasuriya in the team.

Richard Hadlee has a bigger claim. I think.

 

[stephen]

Beven was the best finisher before the emergence of Dhoni.
Beven was the man for crisis.

Dhoni = Beven + attacking ability

Bevan had plenty of attacking ability. 74 is a perfectly fine strike rate for his era. In fact, adjusted for era, Dhoni's 88 strike rate is pretty much identical to Bevan's 74 strike rate.

At the very least, Bevan is Dhoni's equal but based on their opposition and where they played their cricket, I'd put Bevan ahead of Dhoni as a pure batsman by a small but significant margin.

Dhoni of course is a more complete package when you bring his keeping into the equation.

 

[stephen]

Richard Hadlee has a bigger claim. I think.

That's it. Pollock is behind a couple of people as a "bowler who can bat decently" and behind a few more people as a "genuine all rounder" and behind even more people as a "batsman who can bowl a bit.

He's a gun cricketer and would make any side in history, even if there were people better than him in history.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Bevan had plenty of attacking ability. 74 is a perfectly fine strike rate for his era. In fact, adjusted for era, Dhoni's 88 strike rate is pretty much identical to Bevan's 74 strike rate.

At the very least, Bevan is Dhoni's equal but based on their opposition and where they played their cricket, I'd put Bevan ahead of Dhoni as a pure batsman by a small but significant margin.

Dhoni of course is a more complete package when you bring his keeping into the equation.

74 is todays 80 not 88
Dhoni easily better attacking batsman. He has more gears. Beven seldom changed gears even when the situations demanded it.

 

[ankitj]

Richard Hadlee has a bigger claim. I think.

Hadlee is one of my all time favorite cricketer so I have no bones to pick with that. CW doesn't agree though: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/77589-all-time-world-odi-xi-game-24.html#post4017523

 

[Red]

Beven was the best finisher before the emergence of Dhoni.
Beven was the man for crisis.

Dhoni = Beven + attacking ability

No, Bevan did finish a couple of close games that were exciting, but this is another thing that's been overblown to the **** by his high average which is inflated by his not outs. His runs per innings are identical to basically everyone else who batted in the lower middle order.

Give me Symonds, Hussey, Lloyd and quite a few others over Bevan in the #6 slot in an ATG ODI XI any day. He was good, but not as good as has been made out.

 

[weldone]

Hadlee is one of my all time favorite cricketer so I have no bones to pick with that. CW doesn't agree though: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/77589-all-time-world-odi-xi-game-24.html#post4017523

Yes I didn't understand why Imran was picked ahead of Hadlee for ODIs.

 

[bagapath]

Yes I didn't understand why Imran was picked ahead of Hadlee for ODIs.

more reliable bat than the other three all rounders in this format ... Captain... World cup win... Some very memorable late order match turning knocks with Javed in tow,,, and a few fearsome spells... He certainly has a case

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

more reliable bat than the other three all rounders in this format ... Captain... World cup win... Sone very memorable late order match turning knocks with Javed in tow,,, and a few fearsome spells... He certainly has a case

Kapil - Greatest Odi allrounder
Hadlee - one of the greatest Odi bowler, handy with bat
I dont know where Imran fits in an alltime 11

 

[morgieb]

Imran is statistically better than Kapil at ODI's. Admittedly Kapil has the much better SR and their bowling figures are pretty similar.

 

[AndrewB]

Not easy to compare "avg 33, SR 72" against "avg 23, SR 95".