Players that initially promised but eventually disappointed

[GIMH]

Have you heard of Alastair Cook?

No doubt Cook will score more in the end but I would say it is not unreasonable to think KP might score as many or more than Cook in the time up to his retirement.

 

[four_or_six]

No doubt Cook will score more in the end but I would say it is not unreasonable to think KP might score as many or more than Cook in the time up to his retirement.

No way... that's like saying that it is not unreasonable to think that Jimmy Anderson should worship at the altar of Ben Hilfenhaus, or that Michael Atherton should try to adapt his journalistic style to that of Michael Vaughan, or that Sachin Tendulkar will score a hundred on Sunday.

 

[hazsa19]

Absolutely Kevin Pietersen. Just think about that odi series in South Africa, the Ashes 05...

 

[GIMH]

No way... that's like saying that it is not unreasonable to think that Jimmy Anderson should worship at the altar of Ben Hilfenhaus, or that Michael Atherton should try to adapt his journalistic style to that of Michael Vaughan, or that Sachin Tendulkar will score a hundred on Sunday.

That last one is bizarre, be serious

 

[slowfinger]

What about Ol' Stuart Clarke?!!! /herpderp

 

[_Ed_]

Tim Southee is well on his way towards being one of them, he better make me eat my words.

Sadly, he was the first NZ name to come to my mind as well.

But he can do quite a bit to change that over the next 5-6 weeks.

 

[CWB304]

I would argue that if we end up looking back on his career and thinking, "but there could have been so much more..." then he'll qualify as a disappointment, no matter how many Test centuries he's made (particularly so given that isn't a landmark of any prestige in English history: I'm a stats geek and a cricket tragic and I couldn't tell you who holds it at the present with any certainty - off the top of my head it's 22 and probably Gooch or Cowdrey).

It all comes back, like Kath said, to the immense expectations created, partly by the media, and certainly fuelled by his own ego, in the first 18 months of his career. Unfortunately, since then, it feels like there's been more hype than substance - the odd brilliant innings aside, what do we end up thinking when KP comes to the crease today? Does he give off an aura of permanence and class, or are we left praying that he doesn't **** up against a left-armer, again?

It's not just left-armers, is it? He's weak against spin in general and, in hindsight, always has been. Those eye-catching slog sweeps against Warne and Murali early doors ought to have given us a clue as to his limitations: really good players of spin don't rely so much on cross batted shots. He was flummoxed enough by those players and other good spinners even then to suggest that his performing well against them was more a confidence and hit-or-miss affair than it ever really should be for a top class player of spin.

When low on confidence or out of touch you can start to look really silly if you do not have a variety of scoring options and do not have an intuitive sense of the tempo and variety of footwork necessary to keep the scoreboard ticking against spinners even without having to play big shots, and I don't think he's ever had that. Now of course against Ajmal and Rehman he looks like tailender each time he goes out to bat, but I don't think it's a sign of regression: it's simply that he's short of confidence.

The reality is that he's never really been a candidate for eventual ATG status because he really has never been even competent against top class spin. When he made runs against this sort of bowling early in his career he was flattering to deceive; he never was a good player of spin but was high on confidence at that time and therefore batting like Mitchell Johnson after he has just taken a six wicket haul.

Now he's been found out. If he were even competent against spin, don't you think he would have proved just once that this so-called hoodoo against left-armers has no basis in reality? But he can't. Because he does not have the skill. The only way he could have elevated himself to become a good (not even speaking of great) player of spin is if he were to have truly dedicated himself to improving his game mid career like someone like Sanga has done (and few others in the history of the game have managed). Not having that commitment and perhaps having started to believe that he was as good as the celebrity hype which quickly surrounded him following the 2005 Ashes series suggested he was, it is not really surprising that he appears to have regressed.

But the reality is that he has pretty much stayed the same level and it is perhaps a mixture of age and slightly slower reflexes and the loss of confidence resulting from not being the main man in the batting lineup as he indisputably was in the first half of his career which has accounted for his recent inconsistent form. I was as guilty as most of overrating him; I just wasn't looking closely enough.

 

[Jacknife]

No doubt Cook will score more in the end but I would say it is not unreasonable to think KP might score as many or more than Cook in the time up to his retirement.

I agree, no doubt Cook's been through a good run of form but we've seen what he's like when he isn't. Still believe KP will be the first to break the record, hopefully this summer, with me watching. Cook because of his early start to International career and the fact he seems to have no injury issues should run away with it in the end.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Everyone to have received the ICC emerging player of the year award has failed to live up to their promise, at least for a period of their career:

2004 - Irfan Pathan
2005 - Kevin Pietersen
2006 - Ian Bell
2007 - Shaun Tait
2008 - Ajantha Mendis
2009 - Peter Siddle
2010 - Steven Finn
2011 - Devendra Bishoo

Bell, KP and Siddle the most successful there? I don't think anyone would argue that those 3 haven't looked to be wasting their initial promise at times either.

 

[nightprowler10]

Mendis?

 

[CWB304]

Everyone to have received the ICC emerging player of the year award has failed to live up to their promise, at least for a period of their career:

2004 - Irfan Pathan
2005 - Kevin Pietersen
2006 - Ian Bell
2007 - Shaun Tait
2008 - Ajantha Mendis
2009 - Peter Siddle
2010 - Steven Finn
2011 - Devendra Bishoo

Bell, KP and Siddle the most successful there? I don't think anyone would argue that those 3 haven't looked to be wasting their initial promise at times either.

Pretty much every player hits a speed bump at some stage in their early career. But no one can deny Siddle's and Finn's class these days. Jury's still out on Bishoo. As for the rest, stick a fork in 'em, they're done

 

[hazsa19]

I might be inclined to agree with ABC123 if I hadn't watched every ball of KP's first 18 months in cricket. I just don't buy the argument that he was never genuinely good against spin.

Two of the greatest spinners of all time would land balls on a perfect length, a good line, and with **** loads of spin. To the same ball KP could reach forward and nullify the threat with a perfect defensive stroke, squirt it through backward point and gully, drive masterfully through the covers, handsomely down the ground, whip through mid-wicket, nurdle around the corner, and slog/ reverse slog for 6.

There's more than one way of playing spin successfully. KP was no Thorpe or Sangakkara in his approach, but that doesn't mean he wasn't brilliant at playing spin.

 

[Jacknife]

I might be inclined to agree with ABC123 if I hadn't watched every ball of KP's first 18 months in cricket. I just don't buy the argument that he was never genuinely good against spin.

Two of the greatest spinners of all time would land balls on a perfect length, a good line, and with **** loads of spin. To the same ball KP could reach forward and nullify the threat with a perfect defensive stroke, squirt it through backward point and gully, drive masterfully through the covers, handsomely down the ground, whip through mid-wicket, nurdle around the corner, and slog/ reverse slog for 6.

There's more than one way of playing spin successfully. KP was no Thorpe or Sangakkara in his approach, but that doesn't mean he wasn't brilliant at playing spin.

Over the years the Lbw's have increasingly gone more in favor of the spin bowlers. KP used to get down the pitch slam bat and pad together or at least get huge stride in, knowing there would be no chance the umpire would give it, DRS changed that .
He simply can't do that anymore and has been battling to change his technique since then.
I also agree, saying he was never any good is historical revisionism.

 

[hazsa19]

Over the years the Lbw's have increasingly gone more in favor of the spin bowlers. KP used to get down the pitch slam bat and pad together or at least get huge stride in, knowing there would be no chance the umpire would give it, DRS changed that .
He simply can't do that anymore and has been battling to change his technique since then.
I also agree, saying he was never any good is historical revisionism.

Tbh i just don't buy that. Everyone used to comment on his reach, and look past the fact he pretty much technically perfect when playing a straight batted shot. Now, for whatever reason, his front foot is invariably plonked somewhere down the track and his bat comes down at all sorts of random angles.

If it is DRS related then it's all mental and self inflicted.

 

[CWB304]

I might be inclined to agree with ABC123...

I've always pitied those who intentionally misspell other posters' nicks as half-wits, who are so desperate for giggles, and so utterly incapable of generating their intended effect of mockery by creditable means, that they needs must stoop to grubby, base and uncivil methods to attain their ends. What say ye?

 

[Prince EWS]

I've always pitied those who intentionally misspell other posters' nicks as half-wits, who are so desperate for giggles, and so utterly incapable of generating their intended effect of mockery by creditable means, that they needs must stoop to grubby, base and uncivil methods to attain their ends. What say ye?

I don't think he meant it offensively; the specifics of your username just aren't very memorable and he probably just couldn't be bothered copy/pasting. I always just refer to you as "that new guy who doesn't rate Ian Bell" for similar reasons, but that's pretty wordy.

 

[morgieb]

Raina?

 

[Ruckus]

I've always pitied those who intentionally misspell other posters' nicks as half-wits, who are so desperate for giggles, and so utterly incapable of generating their intended effect of mockery by creditable means, that they needs must stoop to grubby, base and uncivil methods to attain their ends. What say ye?

woah, way to be over-the-top there. Who is gonna wanna type out CWB403 everytime they mention you?

On the topic, surely Mitchell Johnson has to be the lord of doing as the thread states...it was such a long, painful, frustrating, pendulating process as well...until he inevitably disappointed. The worst thing about it as well was you just see it coming, and you knew that nothing was gonna be done about it.

 

[CWB304]

I don't think he meant it offensively

Yes he did.

 

[CWB304]

Who is gonna wanna type out CWB403 everytime they mention you?

Conscientious, but dyslexic, posters.