Placing our bets on "Test Cricket's Young Fab Four"

[TheJediBrah]

If you're rating someone as of the current time, you can only base that rating on what they've already achieved in their careers. Or am I missing something?

nah, just that not everyone might define that the same way you just did

ftr I see it the same way you do, it's the only logical way to compare

 

[Zinzan]

Fair to say this thread will get more juicy if Smith averages 25-30 in the Indian series & Kohli 100.

Obviously that won't happen in reality given Smith's so good away.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Azhar Ali just scored two hundred against you, Ross Taylor hit 290, Faf Du Plessis in the worst form of his life spanked 100, De Kock treated it like open season. Most sides coming to Australia have had stand out batting performances, but not been able to last into the fifth day for whatever reason, except South Africa who dominated you.

Is there any point in me rattling off the huge list of touring batsmen that had terrible tours?

I doubt it

 

[Blocky]

I swear Blocky is just gaslighting us all at this point, calling tours we all watched live actually bad when everyone agreed at the time they were good.

Are you saying that Smith performed in Sri Lanka? Or England (outside his one off average boosting performance)? Or against South Africa? What he does well is ensure any start he gets generally goes on with it, that's his talent, he's like Steve Waugh, relentless once he's in, but he's also been given some of the easiest conditions to get in with

Like I keep saying, I'll have pie all over my face if he's dominant in India, but I'm strongly doubting that. His technique relies on trusting the bounce and lack of variation in the wicket. He's looked all at sea several times against spinners and seamers when the ball is moving around.

 

[Zinzan]

Azhar Ali just scored two hundred against you, Ross Taylor hit 290, Faf Du Plessis in the worst form of his life spanked 100, De Kock treated it like open season. Most sides coming to Australia have had stand out batting performances, but not been able to last into the fifth day for whatever reason, except South Africa who dominated you.

I think Kohli might have done ok on his last tour there too just quietly.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

This thread is cancer. It's like the Warne vs Murali threads of old.

 

[Blocky]

Is there any point in me rattling off the huge list of touring batsmen that had terrible tours?

I doubt it

Considering you also happen to have bowlers who would make Smith look average in Starc and Haze, sure, rattle them off. You've seen more scores over 400 in Australia in the past two seasons than had been in the last ten.

 

[CM Punk]

Yeah Smith has incredible hand-eye coordination no doubt. Takes serious talent to bat the way he does. The only question is, how well will his technique hold up when his feet slow down a bit and his eye gets a little worse? Probably not as well as the other three. But that doesn't matter while judging him right now.

This is why I think it will probably finish - Kohli > Root > Smith > KW.

Next half a decade the top spot will be fought between Kohli and Smith with Root having his moments here and there.

 

[Spark]

Are you saying that Smith performed in Sri Lanka? Or England (outside his one off average boosting performance)? Or against South Africa? What he does well is ensure any start he gets generally goes on with it, that's his talent, he's like Steve Waugh, relentless once he's in, but he's also been given some of the easiest conditions to get in with

Like I keep saying, I'll have pie all over my face if he's dominant in India, but I'm strongly doubting that. His technique relies on trusting the bounce and lack of variation in the wicket. He's looked all at sea several times against spinners and seamers when the ball is moving around.

He has actually toured overseas more than twice, stunningly. Which you are aware of when it "suits" you:

He's batted 5 innings in South Africa, failed 3 times with one not out boosting his record there.

 

[Zinzan]

How do you call those pitches flat when they get the least draws anywhere? Being good in your home conditions is not necessarily FLAT. New Zealand pitches are not not flat - New Zealand are just ****.

Hey, no need to insult us poor little Kiwis, we didn't hurt anyone. We're not even crowing these days.

 

[Zinzan]

This thread is cancer.

At least be specific, prostate? lung? or a more mild type of skin cancer that can be treated?

 

[Blocky]

He has actually toured overseas more than twice, stunningly. Which you are aware of when it "suits" you:

He hasn't had a massive amount of overseas test innings outside of England. That can't be debated, bringing up his away record when it's heavily reliant on what he did in six innings is like me saying that Matthew Sinclair was the best batsman in the 1990s for his record at the end of the year... or saying Adam Voges deserves to be seen in the same light as Graeme Pollock, or that David Warner's 47 average is the equivalent of what Hayden was able to do in his career.

The problem is too many players have had amazing success in Australia for it to be taken seriously. Taylor couldn't hardly see the thing and belted 290 against your very good bowling attack.

 

[Victor Ian]

Is Blocky really playing the "when you take away all his good innings then Smith is crap argument"?

 

[CM Punk]

I don't know how you can have a go at Smith, when our own Kane's record in difficult conditions or against good bowling attacks is so damn poor.

 

[Blocky]

Feel free to remind me of all I've said, should Smith actually score some runs against Jadeja and Ashwin. He's about to have the type of series that shows why his technique relies on popgun attacks bowling on road like pitches.

 

[Blocky]

I don't know how you can have a go at Smith, when our own Kane's record in difficult conditions or good bowling attacks is so damn poor.

Why are you making this about Kane? Where in this thread have you seen me equate the two of them? I have Kane at 6th best, one behind Smith. Root, Kohli, De Kock, De Villiers are my top 4.

 

[Blocky]

Is Blocky really playing the "when you take away all his good innings then Smith is crap argument"?

You can leave his "good" innings in, against Sri Lanka and England and his average is back to a normalised 41. He's at best a 45 average cricketer, and that's on the basis of his current hand-eye. Give him a few seasons and that's what he'll return to, he's had such a great golden peak of form against inept teams in the easiest conditions in the world that he'll likely end up with a early to mid fifties record despite that.

 

[vcs]

Smith made runs in his England tour in 2013 (averaged a respectable 40-odd IIRC) and made centuries on two fairly challenging pitches in Perth and Sydney in the return Ashes as well. It's only fair to point that out if you're going to discard his Lords' and Oval knocks in 2015 (which is a fairly stupid thing to do anyway).

 

[Zinzan]

Is there any point in me rattling off the huge list of touring batsmen that had terrible tours?

I doubt it

I really don't want to big up KW atm because he's had such an ordinary last 9 months, but I found it interesting that he commented that it was like being in heaven batting at the Gabba & the WACA wickets last year & went on to say he kind of envy's Aust batsmen having those as their home tracks. Of course he averaged 85 in that series against your bowlers who we keep getting told in other arguments are such good bowlers.. Hazel, Starc, Johnson & co.

So there's possibly something about them being good wickets to bat on for certain batsmen.

 

[Spark]

Smith made runs in his England tour in 2013 (averaged a respectable 40-odd IIRC) and made centuries on two fairly challenging pitches in Perth and Sydney in the return Ashes as well. It's only fair to point that out if you're going to discard his Lords' and Oval knocks in 2015 (which is a fairly stupid thing to do anyway).

He really should have scored more on that tour as well. The thing about Smith being near-impossible to actually get out once set (as opposed to him spooning one in the air playing a weird shot going for quick runs) is that it's a very new thing, on that tour I think he made about five starts, only converted once. They weren't cheap runs too, 1st innings at Trent Bridge Anderson had the ball on a string and he looked easily the most comfortable batsman out there... before he decided that it would be a good idea to throw his hands at a wide one, sigh.