Pietersen gets the nod

[Swervy]

the way I see it is Peitersen is obviously a man in form..Thorpe has been struggling with form and fitness.....as for whoever said S jones should be dropped..GET A GRIP

Armchair selectors....have faith in the men who have seen a lot more of these players play this year than you

 

[Top_Cat]

Lewis vs Aus 5 wkts @ 18.60
Jones vs Aus 3 wkts @ 51.66

Compare apples with apples, please and don't include another form of the game for one but not the other.

In ODI's, given it's only been one game, but Jon Lewis got pummelled for 69 runs off his 10 overs and wasn't picked for the rest of the series. Jones got picked eventually and largely bowled well even disregarding his stats. Anyone who watched him would have seen the Aussies, save one game, found him more difficult than not.

As I said mediocre spinners very rarely have an impact at Lords. It is surely more beneficial to substantially improve your batting than to pick an extra bowler who will have no impact

He averages 1 run more per wicket than his overall career average and falling rapidly. Additionally, he took 9 wickets in the last match he played there (2004) against a team including such 'mediocre' players as Brian Lara, Shiv Chanderpaul and Ramnaresh Sarwan on a belter of a deck. If it wasn't for him, in fact, the game would have been a dull draw with 5 tons, including one double ton, scored in it. Giles won the game for England.

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2004/WI_IN_ENG/SCORECARDS/WI_ENG_T1_22-26JUL2004.html

Except in terms of depth, my bowling lineup is no worse than the one selected, and the extra value added by Pietersen will far outweigh the innocuicy of Giles.

Giles isn't innocuous and, as shown above, recent form suggests he is well aware of how to bowl at Lords. I saw a lot of that match and he bowled brilliantly.

Giles has a perfectly respectable job to do (tie up an end whilst the quicks do their job or bowl to take wickets if the ball is turning) and does it well. And in his last 10 Tests, he's been far from innocuous (39 wickets @ 27). And if you include Tests further back, his average is still below his overall career average.

And anyway, it's not just his individual ability; it's how he fits into the TEAM. There are probably more naturally talented spinners in England but I doubt any of them would click as well in the team as Giles has. With him coming in behind Harmi, Hoggard and Jones, that's a potent attack. Hoggard also bowls very well when no runs are being scored at the other end which, again, is Giles' speciality. Take Giles out of the team, and the bowling attack as a whole loses more than just their spinner (he's no mug with the bat, either). The above combination is what has won England Tests in the last two years. There is no good reason to change it.

 

[Top_Cat]

That's the problem kendall. The media have ensured that this has always been a debate about Pietersen - yes or no? Hence all he had to do was have some success (Bristol, Oval) regardless of any failures (Lords, TWICE). That almost no debate has been given to how valuable Thorpe is to this England team (a left hander, our best batsmen, the 'glue' that holds the team of Stroke makers together giving them the freedom to play their natural games) is almost criminal. All because he is going to retire at the end of the summer. How important now it is that Bell succeeds, and what a responsibility!

It's so much more than who the better player is. Thorpe is struggling with his back just getting through a FC game. Imagine putting him through what shapes to be the toughest Ashes series in over a decade. I would suggest it's far more than form which has forced the selectors' hands. What's the point in picking a guy who, by virtue of his injury, is going to be an almost definite liability in the field and might wrench his back in the first Test and miss the rest of the series? If he was fully fit you'd have a point but he so isn't and I bet we're not hearing the half of how bad his back actually is. When you're having cortisone injections into a nervous area of your body, it's a matter of time before the muscles seize up.

 

[SJS]

England have to be the best batting side in the world if they can drop Thorpe.

 

[kendall]

the way I see it is Peitersen is obviously a man in form..Thorpe has been struggling with form and fitness.....as for whoever said S jones should be dropped..GET A GRIP

Armchair selectors....have faith in the men who have seen a lot more of these players play this year than you

I agree about simon Jones although Tremlett has been bowling well he should get the nod.

As a Hampshire fan i have watched piterson live quite a few times this year including an excellent inigns for england against hampshire i have no dobt he is a brilliant player but despite this i cant believe we are going into a test series against Australia without graham Thrope

 

[greg]

Armchair selectors....have faith in the men who have seen a lot more of these players play this year than you

I fully own up to being an armchair selector, and could well be wrong (and sincerely hope i am). However i doubt i have seen much less of Pietersen than the selectors - in fact in his Press conference Graveney was quite open in saying Pietersen was effectively picked on the basis of his ODI form, and his first class average ;-)

 

[Swervy]

I agree about simon Jones although Tremlett has been bowling well he should get the nod.

As a Hampshire fan i have watched piterson live quite a few times this year including an excellent inigns for england against hampshire i have no dobt he is a brilliant player but despite this i cant believe we are going into a test series against Australia without graham Thrope

just coz he is out of the first test doesnt mean the door is shut on him for the other tests.

This has been an English problem for god knows how many years, clinging on to older players whose edge has gone based on former glories..see Gatting,and Gooch as a prime example.

england are a much more progressive set up these days....this Ashes series is priority but also the selectors will have one eye (albeit squinting) on the Pakistan tour and also the Ashes tour in less than 18 months time.

I beleive with KP in there, England have a better chance of winning

 

[SJS]

I beleive with KP in there, England have a better chance of winning

Maybe so.

I also believe that without Thorpe England have a 'better' chance of losing

 

[kendall]

But has Thorpe shown signs of detieration in the last year? I dont think so even when he is not at his best he can fight briliantly and whenever England have needed him he has stepped up and performed. I do still think however that England can win the ashes without him and pieterson might be the heroe but i will stand by my opinion that Thorpe must be in the england team

 

[Swervy]

Maybe so.

I also believe that without Thorpe England have a 'better' chance of losing

are rather defeatist (or should I say 'non-winning') attitude.

England go into this series with the best chance of WINNING the Ashes for almost 20 years. Winning means winning more games...a 0-0 draw in this series and Australia retain the Ashes

 

[Swervy]

But has Thorpe shown signs of detieration in the last year? I dont think so even when he is not at his best he can fight briliantly and whenever England have needed him he has stepped up and performed. I do still think however that England can win the ashes without him and pieterson might be the heroe but i will stand by my opinion that Thorpe must be in the england team

Thorpe has scored 168 runs in 9 innings for Surrey this season..Peitersen hasnt been brilliant and yet has scored 2 hundreds in FC cricket and has shown that he can be damned good vs Australia already this year ..and he is scoring his FC runs at one hell of a rate

 

[kendall]

I agree England have a great chance of winning the ashes but id be a lot more confident if at 4 and 5 we had won great player with 100 tests too his name and 1 very talented unproven batsman than 2 unproven ones

 

[kendall]

Thorpe has scored 168 runs in 9 innings for Surrey this season..Peitersen hasnt been brilliant and yet has scored 2 hundreds in FC cricket and has shown that he can be damned good vs Australia already this year ..and he is scoring his FC runs at one hell of a rate

But in tests has Thorpe let England down though? Stauss and Trescothics first class performance has been equally poor this year.

 

[SJS]

I am convinced England selectors will HAVE to bring back Thorpe later in the series. I just hope it isnt too late by that time.

 

[kendall]

I think there would be a case for Pieterson and Thorpe over bell. I think the batle should have been between pieterson and bell, they made that decison at the start of the year (i would have made a different one) and i think they should have stuck with that side.

 

[Swervy]

But in tests has Thorpe let England down though? Stauss and Trescothics first class performance has been equally poor this year.

and yet both Trescothick and Strauss have shown hints of great form in the one dayers vs Australia..and where in the country are there two openers who can really challenge those two for a place in the England team anyway.

I know ODI doesnt really have much resemblance to tests, but it still is an indication of what kind of nick a player is in.

And lets not forget Thorpes back problems as well

 

[greg]

I find it interesting how seamlessly all the pundits have managed to change their views. A year ago the debate was all about whether Mark Butcher (!) would come back automatically into the side once his wrist injury cleared up - with the balance in his favour. Not long before that we couldn't survive without a middle order of Butcher, Hussein (!) and Thorpe.

Luckily I think Bell really is as good as people hope he is

 

[Barney Rubble]

S Jones was treated like a club bowler.

As opposed to Lewis, who IS nothing more than a club bowler? Medium-pace plodders should not be part of our attack going into the first Ashes Test. There are 20-25 bowlers in this country I would pick ahead of Lewis for this game.

By the way - Ian Bell to score at least two hundreds in this series, you heard it here first.

 

[Swervy]

I find it interesting how seamlessly all the pundits have managed to change their views. A year ago the debate was all about whether Mark Butcher (!) would come back automatically into the side once his wrist injury cleared up - with the balance in his favour. Not long before that we couldn't survive without a middle order of Butcher, Hussein (!) and Thorpe.

Luckily I think Bell really is as good as people hope he is

he certainly is

 

[Monty]

drop giles for thorpe