• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Pick TWO opening Bowlers for the 1966-85 World test XI

Pick TWO opening bowlers for the 1966-85 World Test XI

  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .
grecian

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lillian Thomson said:
Okay you win, people who are voting on this poll and therefore the users of this forum know nothing about cricket.:D Excellent.
Click to expand...
Did I say that?

Your an argumentative cove aren't you?

You made an incorrect statement about most of Lillees voters having seen them bothplay. Also don't you think if there were less Australians on the board, it may not be quite so resounding.

TBH, I haven't downplayed Lillee, in any of my posts, unlike some, he was a true great. Just think Garner was better.

Anywhoo I don't care Niklas Fasth is about to make me 166 pounds:cool:
 
Lillian Thomson

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
silentstriker said:
to say that 20 votes to 6 is somehow an accurate representation of the ability is beyond just disagreement with opinion, its just a ludicrously wrong statement seething with nationalistic bias.
Click to expand...
Nationalistic bias? If I wanted to make a statement "seething with nationalistic bias" I would have said that John Snow and Bob Willis were the best bowlers in the list. Whenever TV or radio programmes indulge in picking the best XI's of all time Dennis Lillee is always on any shortlist, Joel Garner doesn't even merit a mention. He just isn't held in the same esteem as Lillee in world cricket.
 
aussie tragic

aussie tragic

International Captain
Now I'm first to admit that this might be meaningless, however I was trying to come up with a way to remove the advantage/disadvantage of the different career start/finishes (eg. Lillee's whole career is covered, while Marshall's and Hadlee's just show their early results when they were young).

So, as Marshall only played 40 tests during 1966-85, I took the stats for each leading bowler during their first 40 tests and came up with some interesting (or meaningless) results :)

Garner: 40 tests, 179 wkts @ 21.00 (6/0)
Hadlee: 40 tests, 179 wkts @ 25.72 (13/3)
Holding: 40 tests, 175 wkts @ 23.92 (11/2)
Imran: 40 tests, 179 wkts @ 25.62 (12/2)
Lillee: 40 tests, 206 wkts @ 24.07 (15/5)
Marshall: 40 tests, 188 wkts @ 22.11 (13/2)

I think the bottom line is that they were all outstanding bowlers, however I rated them the following based on their first 40 tests:
1. Marshall: best all-round record with 4.7 wkts/test, 22 average and 13 five-fors
2. Lillee: Best wkts/test at 5.2 and the best five/ten-for record compensate for 24 average.
3. Garner: Best average and same wkt/test ratio as all remaining bowlers.

EDIT: Shock horror, Botham's first 40 tests: 192 wkts @ 20.99 (16/3) :-O
 
Last edited:
Lillian Thomson

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
aussie tragic said:
EDIT: Shock horror, Botham's first 40 tests: 192 wkts @ 20.99 (16/3) :-O
Click to expand...

Botham's first 40 Tests would have included two series against Pakerlesstan and one against the Australian 3rd XI.
 
aussie tragic

aussie tragic

International Captain
Lillian Thomson said:
Botham's first 40 Tests would have included two series against Pakerlesstan and one against the Australian 3rd XI.
Click to expand...
Actually,he made his debut against a pre-WSC Australia and during series with a WSC impact, he played only 9 tests with 36 wkts @ 24.39 (3 against PAK and 6 against Aus).

This means he actually played worse against the WSC weakened sides (other 31 of his first 40 tests gave 156 wkts @ 20.21)
 
Last edited:
R_D

R_D

International Debutant
aussie tragic said:
:laugh: Just like Lillee's been called a "green top bully" and yet Hayden and Ponting were classified "flat track bullies". So which is it, does Australia have green tops or Flat tracks :p
Click to expand...
Actually Aus pitches have been pretty flat compared to rest of the world in last 5 or 6 years. Only reason we see so many test matches finish here is becasue Warne and Mcgrath are so good at taking wickets even on the flattest of wickets and hence why the other teams struggle in Aus.

I was confused as to who to vote for.... couldn't decide but i think i'm going to vote for Marshall and Imran khan.
 
adharcric

adharcric

International Coach
aussie_tragic, please count my vote for Dennis Lillee instead of Joel Garner. You can just take it into account at the end, but that means Lillee and Hadlee are now tied at 23.
 
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
adharcric said:
aussie_tragic, please count my vote for Dennis Lillee instead of Joel Garner. You can just take it into account at the end, but that means Lillee and Hadlee are now tied at 23.
Click to expand...
Put that in bold letters so as to get noticed.

Let me do a bit :)
 
aussie tragic

aussie tragic

International Captain
adharcric said:
aussie_tragic, please count my vote for Dennis Lillee instead of Joel Garner. You can just take it into account at the end, but that means Lillee and Hadlee are now tied at 23.
Click to expand...
As much as I'd like to, can't do it sorry as otherwise there will be a flood of people coming in to change their vote at the end of the Polls. It just means the final bowler Poll may be the best one of all :)

Anyway, if we could change our votes, I probably would have changed my Lillee vote to Hadlee on day 1, and then changed it to Garner early on day 2, Holding later on day 2 and then back to Lillee on day 3 :)
 
Last edited:
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
aussie tragic said:
Anyway, if we could change our votes, I probably would have changed my Lillee vote to Hadlee on day 1, and then changed it to Garner early on day 2, Holding later on day 2 and then back to Lillee on day 3 :)
Click to expand...
:)
 
Burgey

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
BhupinderSingh said:
Why Dennis"The Greentop Bully"Lillee has been included in the poll?The guy failed miserably on subcontinent wickets & avoided touring subcontinent many times because he knew that he would never succeed there.So,he doesn't deserve to be mentioned with other great bowlers like Hadlee,Imran,Garner,Holding,Marshall etc IMO.He should be a candidate for 1965-85 Worst Test XI rather than World Test XI.
Click to expand...
Maybe he's considered for the same reason Waqar was considered for selection in the 1986-2005 XI when he bowled like a busted every time he came to Australia (average 40.50 with the ball in 7 tests here), or he just didn't front. Same for Murali (although he's only played 2 tests here not including the World XI fiasco) - average 116.00 with the ball in Australia, and same for Warne in India (averaging 43 with the ball there).

You don't suggest they aren't great players do you? Or is Lara a dud because he averages 43 with the bat in Australia compared with 52 overall? Or is Inzi a dud because his batting average in Australia is only 35?

Of course you don't suggest those blokes are no good, because they're all good players mate, and they all deserve to be considered. Not considering Lillee and saying he only bowled well on green tops is like not considering Hadlee bcause he was virtually the only bloke in the New Zealand team capable of bowling fast enough to knock the bails off when he hit the stumps and therefore took all their wickets.

What a line up of bowlers it is. For what it's worth, I voted for Marshall and Lillee. Hadlee and Garner were both greats and hopefully Imran will get the all rounder's gig with Sobers picked in the top 5 batsmen. A scary prospect for the batsmen from other eras.
 
Matt79

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
Lillian Thomson said:
Botham's first 40 Tests would have included two series against Pakerlesstan and one against the Australian 3rd XI.
Click to expand...
Actually Botham was just that damned good during the first five years of his career. Its one of the most pronounced peaks of performance ever achieved in cricket - only comparable one I can think of readily is Viv's peak few years. (As in, peaks that far outstripped the player's overall career norm)

I think given the time frame factor in this eleven, there will be a strong argument for including Botham, even ahead of Imran (which would obviously be a much less likely proposition if we were considering overall career).

He also averaged around 40 with the bat during that period, before kinda swapping his batting and bowling averages around in the second half of his career.
 
Last edited:
aussie tragic

aussie tragic

International Captain
Matt79 said:
Actually Botham was just that damned good during the first five years of his career. Its one of the most pronounced peaks of performance ever achieved in cricket - only comparable one I can think of readily is Viv's peak few years. (As in, peaks that far outstripped the player's overall career norm)
Click to expand...
He still took more tests than Lillee to get to 200 wkts though :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top