Pick Two Opening Batsmen for the 1946-65 World Test XI

[bagapath]

I *cough* disagree (just so that the openers for the Post-war XI are not decided already)

ha ha ha. good attempt. but do you actually think there is going to be any competition for sunny and hutton from hayden or greenidge? I doubt it... but we have one whole team to select before that... lets hang on till then...

CC's arguments are quite interesting. matt's frustration in avoiding a racial spin is equally valid. I have read "beyond the boundry" and loved it. but it is very difficult to quantify those elements when you are selecting a team. there is a danger of "over correcting" also if you want to add those elements in the mix. For example, if a non-white batsman was given out to a series of dubious lbw calls we can assume he was deprived of reaching greater heights in his overall career and give him some rope . but it is also logical to assume that he would have got out to a perfectly legitimate delivery in the same over or next without adding a run. thus we have awarded him with bonus points he didnt deserve.

ifs and buts are of no use to us. yes, it is a pity not everyone gets treated fairly. but who said this is a fair world anyway?

 

[Matt79]

ha ha ha. good attempt. but do you actually think there is going to be any competition for sunny and hutton from hayden or greenidge? I doubt it... but we have one whole team to select before that... lets hang on till then...

CC's arguments are quite interesting. matt's frustration in avoiding a racial spin is equally valid. I have read "beyond the boundry" and loved it. but it is very difficult to quantify those elements when you are selecting a team. there is a danger of "over correcting" also if you want to add those elements in the mix. For example, if a non-white batsman was given out to a series of dubious lbw calls we can assume he was deprived of reaching greater heights in his overall career and give him some rope . but it is also logical to assume that he would have got out to a perfectly legitimate delivery in the same over or next without adding a run. thus we have awarded him with bonus points he didnt deserve.

ifs and buts are of no use to us. yes, it is a pity not everyone gets treated fairly. but who said this is a fair world anyway?

I'm going to drop it at this point because I think both CC and I have outlined our basic position well enough for people to make up their own mind.

I should add that if you read my reaction to CC's post here it probably does look like an overreaction to his comment in this thread, but it was made in the context of a number of threads that have gone down this path.

 

[silentstriker]

I *cough* disagree (just so that the openers for the Post-war XI are not decided already)

Hayden might not be as good as Slater, let alone Hutton.

 

[shortpitched713]

Hayden might not be as good as Slater, let alone Hutton.

Why, because a couple of guys on roundtable told you that?

 

[silentstriker]

Why, because a couple of guys on roundtable told you that?

Actually, yes. They got the thought rolling, and now that I think about it, they may be right. There is nothing wrong with thinking about a subject if someone brings up a good point.

I am not saying I believe it, but I don't know if its as clear cut as I once thought.

 

[Jono]

Why, because a couple of guys on roundtable told you that?

Slater being > Hayden has been mentioned on this board years before Cricinfo Talk began, as I pointed out in that thread. They're just echoing thoughts that various members have stated previously.

 

[shortpitched713]

Actually, yes. They got the thought rolling, and now that I think about it, they may be right. There is nothing wrong with thinking about a subject if someone brings up a good point.

I am not saying I believe it, but I don't know if its as clear cut as I once thought.

Hayden's average is a good 9 points above Taylor's and 10 points above Slater's. By your own criteria, thats too much of a difference for pitch conditions and quality of bowling to make up the difference.

 

[shortpitched713]

Slater being > Hayden has been mentioned on this board years before Cricinfo Talk began, as I pointed out in that thread. They're just echoing thoughts that various members have stated previously.

While thats all true, I'm simply trying to look at SS's rationale for possibly rating Slater over Hayden. After all, he's only been here six months longer than I have.

 

[silentstriker]

While thats all true, I'm simply trying to look at SS's rationale for possibly rating Slater over Hayden. After all, he's only been here six months longer than I have.

That doesn't mean I wasn't following cricket before that.

 

[R_D]

Hutton was easy choice but 2nd opner was hard to pick, was thinking of Hanif but Picked Morris in the end.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Just made a big post here about Slater etc, but I realised it's probably in the wrong thread, so I've moved it to the "debate" thread about the cricinfo roundtable.

 

[shortpitched713]

That doesn't mean I wasn't following cricket before that.

I was referring to the fact that you hadn't mentioned on this board years ago that Slater was better than Hayden. As I recall this is the first time I think you've mentioned that. In no way am I doubting that you've followed cricket for a long time.

 

[Jono]

Hayden's average is a good 9 points above Taylor's and 10 points above Slater's. By your own criteria, thats too much of a difference for pitch conditions and quality of bowling to make up the difference.

Haha good counter-point, I do recall SS saying something similar along those lines regarding Sehwag being > Anwar I believe. Seems fairly contradictory.

 

[silentstriker]

Haha good counter-point, I do recall SS saying something similar along those lines regarding Sehwag being > Anwar I believe. Seems fairly contradictory.

Yea, and I still do think Hayden > Slater. I just don't think the difference is that great anymore.

 

[adharcric]

Yea, and I still do think Hayden > Slater. I just don't think the difference is that great anymore.

Way to backtrack SS.

 

[silentstriker]

Way to backtrack SS.

Actually, yes. They got the thought rolling, and now that I think about it, they may be right. There is nothing wrong with thinking about a subject if someone brings up a good point.

I am not saying I believe it, but I don't know if its as clear cut as I once thought.

I didn't know I backtracked?

 

[aussie tragic]

Well this has to be the most one-sided and at the same time closest polls of all-time

Hutton the clear leader with 28 out of 30 votes, while the 2nd position could be won by any of the following six players:

Hanif Mohammad (Pak): 6 votes
Arthur Morris (Aus): 6 votes
Bob Simpson (Aus): 6 votes
Eddie Barlow (SA): 5 votes
Conrad Hunte (WI): 4 votes
Bill Lawry (Aus): 4 votes

Edit: Oh yeah, and not to forget Bert Sutcliffe (NZ) with 1 vote

 

[PhoenixFire]

Hanif Mohammed and Len Hutton for me.

 

[aussie tragic]

Can anyone break this tie for the 2nd Opener

 

[adharcric]

I was referring to this SS. Anyways, just drop it ... couldn't care less.

Hayden might not be as good as Slater, let alone Hutton.