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Pick a South Africa XI readmission to 2008

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I agree with your basic point, but it's fair to say that when the Windies played Roger Harper they didn't seem to give much more away than when they played an all-pace attack.

The quality of the quicks in the Windies team may be a bit misleading though. The reality of a 4-man pace attack for many teams is usually a bit different. I can never get out of my head the misery of the 1st Ashes Test of 1989 (Defreitas, Newport, Foster, Pringle; Aus 601-7 dec)
Four bad seamers is no different to three bad seamers and a bad spinner, though, is the point.

Quality is the issue. If a spinner is good enough to be a better bowler than a seamer, he should play ahead of said seamer. But I always urge people to look at the quality alone, not the classification, of the bowler.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, I counted 7 which I whought was overkill.

Id probably play the extra bat

1. Smith
2. Kirsten
3. Gibbs
4. Kallis
5. Cullinan
6. Cronje (c)
7. Boucher (wkt)
8. Pollock
9. Donald
10. Adams
11. Ntini

Gibbs isnt perfect but he adds a different aspect to others.
Cronje a strong backbone and captain
Enough seam bowling to 'blow the bloody doors off'
Adams is **** but dangerous. In this attack he would have no responsibilities apart from to bowl when nothing was happening and provide something different.

TBH, the batting look quite weak and the bowling overly reliant on Donald and Pollock but its still a good team and that is better than being reliant on Danny Morrison and Cairns :ph34r:
As someone who recalls you talking down Ntini as a pretty average performer and talking up "Fast Fanie" before now, I'd be interested to hear why you chose Ntini above PSdeV?
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
As someone who recalls you talking down Ntini as a pretty average performer and talking up "Fast Fanie" before now, I'd be interested to hear why you chose Ntini above PSdeV?
Both true. I think Ntini is really one dimensional and Im not a massive fan. However, his record deserves consideration and I think he compliments the other seamers well.

I think it would be harsh to exclude him.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Can't understand how you'd have Gibbs in your team ahead of Cullinan TBH, never mind that you'd open with Gibbs and have Kirsten at three when Kirsten was a natural opener and Gibbs would be near a sitting-duck at the top against quality new-ball bowlers. ABdeV might be fair enough in a few years time, BTW, but I'd not have him yet.
Gibbs and Smith together despite the wheels coming off towards the end for both players was one of the most successful opening combos the game has had (only Neil Mac and Smith beat it for South Africa). As to why Gibbs is in the side, he is the most talented batsman South Africa has had since readmission and given this side is selected in pomp, Gibbs was better than Cullinan for mine.

AB is in the side because he scored three match winning historically important tons (in one year) more than Cronje or Cullinan ever did.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
12 is a good enough sample in my books

12
G Smith
G Kirsten
J Kallis
M Boucher
S Pollock
A Donald

10
D Steyn

9
D Cullinan

8
H Gibbs

7
A Prince

6
F de Villiers
M Ntini

That's the best 12.

Who misses out on the final XI, de Villiers or Ntini?
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
As to why Gibbs is in the side, he is the most talented batsman South Africa has had since readmission and given this side is selected in pomp, Gibbs was better than Cullinan for mine.

AB is in the side because he scored three match winning historically important tons (in one year) more than Cronje or Cullinan ever did.
The thing about Cullinan (all try and dig the article and statistics) was that he was one of the best players in the world in recent history of playing good bowling on bad tracks.

A different class to virtually anything else SA has produced in adapting and scoring runs in tough situations.

He is a must for the team IMO. One of the first few names down.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Who misses out on the final XI, de Villiers or Ntini?
Ntini must miss out. A very good bowler with amazing heart and stamina, and capable of dismissing good batsmen, but I just think that de Villiers had the edge.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Gibbs and Smith together despite the wheels coming off towards the end for both players was one of the most successful opening combos the game has had (only Neil Mac and Smith beat it for South Africa). As to why Gibbs is in the side, he is the most talented batsman South Africa has had since readmission and given this side is selected in pomp, Gibbs was better than Cullinan for mine.
Gibbs being the most talented batsman since anything is highly debateable for mine, as deficiencies remained in his game throughout his career and were almost always exploited by bowlers of the highest class. Smith and Gibbs may indeed be the most successful opening combo of this or that, but it's exceptionally unlikely they'd have been such a thing against more consistently top-class bowling. I'd have more faith in Kirsten than either of them, especially Gibbs. If I had Gibbs in my side, it'd be as the middle-order batsman he was for the first 10 years or so of his cricket-playing, not as an opener.
AB is in the side because he scored three match winning historically important tons (in one year) more than Cronje or Cullinan ever did.
And personally I want more than one year of anything before picking anyone for any form of longevity-related team. Hence, no ABdeV for me.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
BTW, those who've picked a spinner for every Test rather than just for the subcontinent or the odd other turning pitch that might be encountered, or picked Ntini over the heads of at least (in my book) 2 or 3 better-qualified candidates, some reasoning would be interesting?
We get it. You don't like fingerspinners.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The thing about Cullinan (all try and dig the article and statistics) was that he was one of the best players in the world in recent history of playing good bowling on bad tracks.

A different class to virtually anything else SA has produced in adapting and scoring runs in tough situations.

He is a must for the team IMO. One of the first few names down.
That's what i thought, was surprised people were excluding him. It's not just the he scored more difficult runs, he also scored more runs at a better average than any of his potential replacements too.

Shane Warne would have something to say about that.
Haha, it's a shame that this is the first thing people remember Cullinan for. (I do too to be fair, but he was a quality player in his own right)
 

Savvy Saffer

Cricket Spectator
Daryll Cullinan

Daryll Cullinan was a majestic strokemaker at his best. Easily the most talented batsman since re-admission along with Gibbs and Duminy. My team...

Graeme Smith
Gary Kirsten
Jacques Kallis
Daryll Cullinan
Herschelle Gibbs
Ashwell Prince
Shaun Pollock
Mark Boucher
Fanie de Villiers
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Even if Pietersen could be picked, I wouldn't have him in my side if we're looking at the competition.

1. G Kirsten
2. GC Smith
3. DJ Cullinan
4. JH Kallis
5. WJ Cronje
6. MV Boucher
7. SM Pollock
8. L Klusener
9. N Boje
10. Ntini
11. Donald

12. Rhodes
 

sunilreddy

Banned
Graeme Smith
Gary Kirsten
Jacques Kallis
Daryll Cullinan
Hansie Cronje
Ashwell Prince
Shaun Pollock
Mark Boucher
Fanie de Villiers
Makhaya Ntini
Allan Donald
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Even if Pietersen could be picked, I wouldn't have him in my side if we're looking at the competition.

1. G Kirsten
2. GC Smith
3. DJ Cullinan
4. JH Kallis
5. WJ Cronje
6. MV Boucher
7. SM Pollock
8. L Klusener
9. N Boje
10. Ntini
11. Donald

12. Rhodes
If you're looking to win a Test match you'd sooner have Pietersen than Cronje. Mind you it's a big "if".
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
We get it. You don't like fingerspinners.
I don't "not like" them, I just don't feel they add so much as one thing to a team on most surfaces.

And I'd like to know what justification others have for thinking they do. If you're on a flat pitch where three\four seamers are being ineffective, there's actually precious little if any evidence to support the popular notion that a threatless fingerspinner is more useful than another threatless seamer to the remotest degree.

Also, by default a seamer almost certainly has a better chance of offering a threat than a fingerspinner, because seamers have more options available to them than fingerspinners do. You've got to be pretty bad as a seamer to be a worse bowler than a fingerspinner, on a non-turning pitch.
 

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