Philander's start

[Flametree]

Vernon just keeps on taking wickets. He's now played 15 matches which is getting beyond the "flash in the pan" category... I thought I'd look at other seam bowlers to see how they'd done in their first 15 tests.

List below. Includes only seam bowlers, and only those who played post WW1. I trimmed it at 60+ wickets, which excluded a fair few of the greats. The below list isn't exhaustive, there may be some good but not great bowlers who had exceptional starts to their careers that I didn't think to check. But I checked most of the obvious ones. (eg Lee, Hogg, Alderman)

Wickets and average after bowler's first 15 tests.

Vernon Philander.......... 87 @ 16.82
Bill Johnston.................. 73 @ 17.38
Frank Tyson.................. 70 @ 18.78
Ray Lindwall................. 65 @ 18.92
Ian Botham.................... 78 @ 19.10
Joel Garner................... 75 @ 19.62
Waqar Younis............... 72 @ 20.09
Ken Higgs...................... 71 @ 20.74
Shane Bond................... 71 @ 20.90
Courtney Walsh............. 60 @ 21.20
Wes Hall........................ 83 @ 21.46
Maurice Tate.................. 78 @ 21.70
Fred Trueman................ 74 @ 21.87
Stuart Clark.................... 68 @ 21.88
Ian Bishop...................... 68 @ 22.26
Bill Bowes...................... 68 @ 22.33
Fazal Mahmood.............. 60 @ 22.35
Rodney Hogg................. 64 @ 22.50
Mohammad Asif............. 73 @ 23.01
Colin Croft...................... 73 @ 23.21
Brett Lee........................ 65 @ 23.43
Andy Roberts................ 75 @ 23.82
Allan Donald.................. 70 @ 23.87
Peter Pollock.................. 68 @ 24.02
Dale Steyn..................... 71 @ 24.38
Michael Holding.............. 65 @ 24.55
Jeff Thomson................. 74 @ 25.12
Dennis Lillee................... 67 @ 25.26
John Snow.................... 67 @ 26.31
Terry Alderman.............. 65 @ 27.78
Bill Voce......................... 60 @ 28.38
Alec Bedser................... 65 @ 32.75
Imran Khan..................... 62 @ 32.95

 

[benchmark00]

Has Tangy written an article on Higgs?

 

[watson]

Not sure but Rob has uploaded a pretty good video of Higgs bowling

Ken Higgs forgotten master test bowler 71 wickets @20.74 - YouTube

 

[fredfertang]

Has Tangy written an article on Higgs?

Nah - I batted out four overs against his son once - he was far too quick for me as I barely laid bat on ball till I got a streaky four at the end - he got quicker 'cos he got pissed off as he didn't, as he should have, got me lbw - but then the umpire was my old man

 

[Red]

Philander keeps baffling me. He just looks very ordinary when I've seen him play. Yet he keeps taking bags of wickets cheaply. I keep expecting him to level out, but he shows no signs of it. Still early days, but I just can't figure him out.

 

[Daemon]

It's pretty easy to see why he takes bags of wickets tbh. Graeme Smith said he's the seam version of Ajmal, which to me is one of the best comparisons I've ever heard.

 

[Bahnz]

Philander keeps baffling me. He just looks very ordinary when I've seen him play. Yet he keeps taking bags of wickets cheaply. I keep expecting him to level out, but he shows no signs of it. Still early days, but I just can't figure him out.

He'll level out eventually. Wasn't Hussey averaging in the 80's until something like his 20th test? Reckon his average will break 20 sometime in the next 12 months and never go back.

 

[BeardofAmla]

Why did Glen McGrath take so many wickets?

 

[Burgey]

Speaking from experience, this sort of thing usually starts with reciprocal sideways glances.

 

[Xuhaib]

I have seen quite a bit of him in this series and now I am finallly learning to appreciate him sure Pakistani batsman are not what you call technique and temperament gods but his method of bowling will trouble any batsman in the world. Rarely bowls a bad ball his good ball will always make a batsman play or would be attacking the stumps does not get the banana movement which Steyn can get but to get a nick you don't need to. Having world class bowler bowling from the other end certainly helps it means batsman are looking for more opposites to score from his end hence may induce more pokes then he would say if his bowling partner was Ishant Sharma or Umer Gul. Still feel he might have his little struggles in sub cont and UAE but his discipline of keeping it tight may eventually mean it would be far from a disaster.

 

[BeardofAmla]

I find it hard to believe that its puzzling any Australians why he picks up so many wickets. Especially considering they had this tall bloke who was not the fastest nor did he get massive reverse swing or get banana movement with the ball. He run in smooth action wicket to wicket and keep it at a good line and length bowling with great accuracy. That bloke picked up a huge amount of wickets that way and is considered as one of the greats of Australia and the world. He made it look so simple and easy in the way he went about.

 

[Xuhaib]

I find it hard to believe that its puzzling any Australians why he picks up so many wickets. Especially considering they had this tall bloke who was not the fastest nor did he get massive reverse swing or get banana movement with the ball. He run in smooth action wicket to wicket and keep it at a good line and length bowling with great accuracy. That bloke picked up a huge amount of wickets that way and is considered as one of the greats of Australia and the world. He made it look so simple and easy in the way he went about.

One of Mcgrath's biggest asset was the bounce he generated Philly is not that tall so he does not get the advantage of extra bounce that Mcgrath had.

 

[social]

I find it hard to believe that its puzzling any Australians why he picks up so many wickets. Especially considering they had this tall bloke who was not the fastest nor did he get massive reverse swing or get banana movement with the ball. He run in smooth action wicket to wicket and keep it at a good line and length bowling with great accuracy. That bloke picked up a huge amount of wickets that way and is considered as one of the greats of Australia and the world. He made it look so simple and easy in the way he went about.

Pretty simple

Vernon got wickets against us on green tracks in SA when we were at a very low point

Next time we saw him, he was largely innocuous apart from a couple of spells

 

[social]

I can also understand if the English have a similar view as he looked decidedly ordinary until the clouds rolled in at Lords

It is certainly myopic but people can only go off what they see

 

[Red]

I find it hard to believe that its puzzling any Australians why he picks up so many wickets. Especially considering they had this tall bloke who was not the fastest nor did he get massive reverse swing or get banana movement with the ball. He run in smooth action wicket to wicket and keep it at a good line and length bowling with great accuracy. That bloke picked up a huge amount of wickets that way and is considered as one of the greats of Australia and the world. He made it look so simple and easy in the way he went about.

Yeh, but Bruce Reid got injured a lot.

 

[BeardofAmla]

One of Mcgrath's biggest asset was the bounce he generated Philly is not that tall so he does not get the advantage of extra bounce that Mcgrath had.

Bounce you get more from the pitch and Australia got bouncy wickets. His true weapon was his accuracy and that off-stump line and an immaculate length.

 

[social]

Bounce you get more from the pitch and Australia got bouncy wickets. His true weapon was his accuracy and that off-stump line and an immaculate length.

Also helped that McGrath is 6'5" and was pretty quick at his peak

Their only similarities are accuracy

 

[BeardofAmla]

Also helped that McGrath is 6'5" and was pretty quick at his peak

Their only similarities are accuracy

I am not saying he is a Mcgrath or carbon copy. Don't worry I won't defile your legend like that. I am saying both have line and length as well as accuracy and they bowled it consistently. Simple stuff which is very effective. You miss I hit

 

[social]

I am not saying he is a Mcgrath or carbon copy. Don't worry I won't defile your legend like that. I am saying both have line and length as well as accuracy and they bowled it consistently. Simple stuff which is very effective. You miss I hit

No insult to be compared to Vernon at the moment!

 

[BeardofAmla]

No insult to be compared to Vernon at the moment!

True but McGrath paved his way to legend status. Philander still need to finish his.