Pakistan's chances in England this summer

[Fusion]

Err, they faced it a year ago when Shoaib was still a petulant bugger, Asif was nothing close to the bowler he is today, Kaneria was still pretty novice-like, and Shabbir wasn't even in the side.
An attack of Rana, Sami, Khalil and the rubbish Asif hardly bears comparison.

Good observation, Einstein...

Richard, arguing with a troll like IndianbyHeart would probably give you a headache.

 

[IndianByHeart]

Err, they faced it a year ago when Shoaib was still a petulant bugger, Asif was nothing close to the bowler he is today, Kaneria was still pretty novice-like, and Shabbir wasn't even in the side.
An attack of Rana, Sami, Khalil and the rubbish Asif hardly bears comparison.

...

SHOAIB

Shoaib then was on top of his game, right now he has undergone operation of both his knees and they are likely to effect his career.Its very difficult to come back after knee operation.

KANERIA

Kaneria WASN"T a novice then, its amazing from where you get ur ideas from. Just one year ago Kaneria was novoice and now he's world class bowler
Kaneria is pretty much the same bowler , he hasn't changed that much in a year.


SHABBIR

He isn't even in the side now and will never be, was thrown out after just one match after England, no point talking about him.

ASIF

Thats the only bowler that has improved, but i hardly think that an Improved Asif will give Australia nightmares!

 

[Richard]

When I first saw him, it was dodgy, and when I saw him against England it was dodgy. I haven't seen all of his games so won't comment.

Shabbir has clearly been a very fine bowler on many occasions. Only sometimes have people had trouble with his action. I certainly think his chucking made little difference as to the difficulty of his bowling to face.

 

[Richard]

Heh, I thought Sreesanth bowled OK actually.

Well, he's young - most people think young bowlers bowl OK - until they've played a few games.
Richard Dawson, Gareth Batty and countless others supposedly "bowled well" early in their Test-careers.

 

[Richard]

Richard, arguing with a troll like IndianbyHeart would probably give you a headache.

I get a headache from arguing with absolutely no-one.
I will let-up with less ease than... pretty much anyone.

 

[Richard]

SHOAIB

Shoaib then was on top of his game, right now he has undergone operation of both his knees and they are likely to effect his career.Its very difficult to come back after knee operation.

It is, but if there's someone I'd back to do it it's Shoaib.
He's wasted so much of his career I hardly see he'd be likely to give-up so easily.
Shoaib certainly wasn't on the top of his game in Australia, he bowled well in patches. As he has done for most of his career.

KANERIA

Kaneria WASN"T a novice then, its amazing from where you get ur ideas from. Just one year ago Kaneria was novoice and now he's world class bowler
Kaneria is pretty much the same bowler , he hasn't changed that much in a year.

Kaneria isn't World-class now, not close, but he certainly has the potential to be as far as I'm concerned. No, he's not massively different now to a year ago, but IMO he is slightly better.

SHABBIR

He isn't even in the side now and will never be, was thrown out after just one match after England, no point talking about him.

No, was left-out in his own interests. If he has any strength of mind, he'll be back, and will probably bowl even better then.

ASIF

Thats the only bowler that has improved, but i hardly think that an Improved Asif will give Australia nightmares!

I do, if he continues to swing the ball both ways with the accuracy he's shown recently. Someone like that will give anyone problems.

 

[IndianByHeart]

It is, but if there's someone I'd back to do it it's Shoaib.
He's wasted so much of his career I hardly see he'd be likely to give-up so easily.
Shoaib certainly wasn't on the top of his game in Australia, he bowled well in patches. As he has done for most of his career.

.

So as things stands he can hardly be expected to perform better than last time especially when he's fighting a fitness battle.

Kaneria isn't World-class now, not close, but he certainly has the potential to be as far as I'm concerned. No, he's not massively different now to a year ago, but IMO he is slightly better.

Yes he's slightly better which proves that he wasn't exactly a "novoice" a year back.And just a slight improvement can't offer great hopes.

No, was left-out in his own interests. If he has any strength of mind, he'll be back, and will probably bowl even better then.

He's the only bowler ever to serve a one year life ban after being called for numerous time for chucking.To expect him to come back and bowl even better, when the poor guy would always have a fear of being called once again, is nothing but expecting miracles.I feel sad for him, but the fact is that his career is all but over.

I do, if he continues to swing the ball both ways with the accuracy he's shown recently. Someone like that will give anyone problems.

He's a real talent, and as i have said earlier that he can be a top bowler in a few years time if he continues the hard work.

Since the last tour of Australia Pak have just one quality gain in Asif as far as bowling in concerned, and there are big question marks on the fitness of Akhtar.As such its hard to imagine this bowling attack giving Australia a real hard time.

 

[Richard]

So as things stands he can hardly be expected to perform better than last time especially when he's fighting a fitness battle.

We can't know either way - there's a long time till they face each other next.

Yes he's slightly better which proves that he wasn't exactly a "novoice" a year back.And just a slight improvement can't offer great hopes.

He certainly was a novice, as he's been for most of his Test career.
Kaneria has still learnt little, and has changed little from the first time I saw him.
Which is a shame - because with just 1 or 2 small changes he could become a Warne\Mushtaq easily.

He's the only bowler ever to serve a one year life ban after being called for numerous time for chucking.To expect him to come back and bowl even better, when the poor guy would always have a fear of being called once again, is nothing but expecting miracles.I feel sad for him, but the fact is that his career is all but over.

We will, again, only know that when we find-out. Do we know much about his strength-of-mind? If Sarfraz can rub anything off on him, I'd back him to be determined to come back stronger.

He's a real talent, and as i have said earlier that he can be a top bowler in a few years time if he continues the hard work.

Since the last tour of Australia Pak have just one quality gain in Asif as far as bowling in concerned, and there are big question marks on the fitness of Akhtar.As such its hard to imagine this bowling attack giving Australia a real hard time.

If it played at the current time, yes, but the next series isn't for a while.

 

[IndianByHeart]

He certainly was a novice, as he's been for most of his Test career.
Kaneria has still learnt little, and has changed little from the first time I saw him.
Which is a shame - because with just 1 or 2 small changes he could become a Warne\Mushtaq easily.

.

I disagree with you on him being a novoice, however i do agree that he has learnt little since then.Now since he isn't a much different bowler since the last Aus tour then how can he be a threath to Aus this time around??

We will, again, only know that when we find-out. Do we know much about his strength-of-mind? If Sarfraz can rub anything off on him, I'd back him to be determined to come back stronger.

Sarfaraz worked on his action which was again unapproved and Shabbir ended up with a one year ban.It should be clear by now that Shabbir has very little chance of making a comeback, and to expect him to come back and do wonder against Australia is plain stupid.

If it played at the current time, yes, but the next series isn't for a while.

But you were talking about this Pak attack (which destroyed Eng) giving hard time to Australia, atleast you now do agree that Pak are unlikely to do anything against the Aussies if the series is played now.

 

[tooextracool]

Well, he's young - most people think young bowlers bowl OK - until they've played a few games.
Richard Dawson, Gareth Batty and countless others supposedly "bowled well" early in their Test-careers.

i dont know what you watch really. Sreesanth looks to me a better bowler than Munaf and certainly far better than Pathan. Hes certainly looked test class from almost the very first spell that hes bowled in test cricket.

 

[tooextracool]

Are you telling me the Giles delivery wasn't unplayable?

there were 1 or 2 that were unplayable yes, but almost every other delivery was playable.

 

[tooextracool]

They're quite good, yes.

Not worrying.

as has been suggested, 6/132 is not exactly a particularly brilliant position to be in, especially on a flat pitch with pathan bowling rubbish.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes I remember the jokes, and remember wondering what the hell they were on about.

I thought he was very accurate, his RPO was no coincidence, and he was swinging it a bit too.

are you serious?
any fool who watched the game will tell you that the only reason he maintained a decent RPO was because he bowled miles outside off stump without making the batsman play whatsoever. another classic occasion where RPO doesn not translate to how well a bowler has bowled. and honestly shabbir ahmad didnt swing a single ball in that test match and he was bowling about 7-8 mph than usual.

 

[tooextracool]

Erm, Akhtar reversed it a fair bit, both ways.

for one thing, akthar doesnt reverse the ball both ways. infact very very few bowlers in world cricket reverse swing the ball both ways and thats what makes simon jones brilliant.

 

[tooextracool]

Ponting's Ashes figures would also have translated to 10/97 or whatever...

They're above average figures, but even in Innings where the team has scored huge runs, there's usually at least 1 bowler with above average figures, with some exceptions of course.

except for the fact that those were the only 2 pace bowlers and we're talking about Englands ability against pace?
as far as ponting ashes figures is concerned, i hardly understand how you expect someone to take 1 wicket in the series seriously.

 

[tooextracool]

Of course. That's the point. Sort out the wheat from the chaff.

An average of 30+ even with tailend wickets is not worrying.

and if you did that for all bowlers, every bowlers average would go up a bit. therefore making a bowling average of 30 acceptable. not to mention that in those conditions a bowling average of 30 is acceptable anyways.

 

[Tom Halsey]

and if you did that for all bowlers, every bowlers average would go up a bit. therefore making a bowling average of 30 acceptable. not to mention that in those conditions a bowling average of 30 is acceptable anyways.

Yes, but their bowling averages were over 30.

The pitches looked flat, but they weren't that flat. Pakistan's innings in the 3rd Test aside, no-one (team wise) really got away from the bowlers).

 

[Tom Halsey]

except for the fact that those were the only 2 pace bowlers and we're talking about Englands ability against pace?
as far as ponting ashes figures is concerned, i hardly understand how you expect someone to take 1 wicket in the series seriously.

It was an example, wasn't necessarily about England's innings.

If you can't take 1 wicket seriously, how can you take 4 wickets seriously? Besides, I think Sreenath has looked a very good bowler.

 

[Tom Halsey]

for one thing, akthar doesnt reverse the ball both ways. infact very very few bowlers in world cricket reverse swing the ball both ways and thats what makes simon jones brilliant.

Rubbish. With reverse swing, all you need to do is change the shiny/rough sides around. You need an action that is suited to reverse swing (and Akhtar's certainly is) and from then on it's a case of switching the shiny side around.

Obviously, with orthodox swing, it's a bit harder to swing it both ways because there are slight variations in action.

 

[Tom Halsey]

are you serious?
any fool who watched the game will tell you that the only reason he maintained a decent RPO was because he bowled miles outside off stump without making the batsman play whatsoever. another classic occasion where RPO doesn not translate to how well a bowler has bowled. and honestly shabbir ahmad didnt swing a single ball in that test match and he was bowling about 7-8 mph than usual.

Right.

So, because McGrath spends most of his time bowling outside off-stump, he's bowling rubbish?