Pakistan : Pros and Cons

[Choora]

Anyway, my future Pak test team would be,


Salman
Faisal/Wasti
Hasan Raza / Hameed
Inzi
Youhanna
Asim
Akmal
Akhtar
Shabbir
Danish
Gul(if he ever gets fit) or the best young prospect they have.

No place for Sami & Rana.

 

[SJS]

But Sami isn't a punjabi!!!

I agree with you on their pace attack, i think its absolute crap.I don't see any real yong talent. Khalil is a sick joke, Sami is a proven idiot, often their best pacer appears to be Razzak which tells how grim the situation is.
Its unfortunate that the places of W's have been taken over by the likes of Rana's and Rao's. Clearly Pakistan have no talent in that pace department in contrast arch rival India is making rapid progress in that area!

Pakistan need to understand that Akhtar is vital for the team, Inzi's and Bob's personal dislike counts for nothing specially when the team is losing every second test match, as with each loss the chances of Inzi and Bob retaining their jobs is getting slimmer.On the other hand Akhtar also need to understand that he has to show a bit more maturity.

Shabbir should be back in Pak side soon, and i think for the third pacer they will be better off experimenting with a new guy (untill they find a suitable one) rather than persisting with Sami.



All of a sudden you want Asim to open for Pakistan and skip the side too? Don't you think you are asking too much from him??

Frankly i'm myself not sure who should lead the side in future.Inzi is not a good captain, Younis Khan was always my man for the job and i still think he can do a good job as a captain but i'm not sure if he's an automatic selection in Pak test side, for if he isn't then he shouldn't be named the skipper.

Asim has just started his career, so it wouldn't be wise to even name him as the vice captain. I think they would just go with Inzi for another year or so.

I like Danish's aggression, maybe in some years he might get a chance to skip Pak side.

I know Sami is not a Punjabi. I did not want to say Pakistani aggression for not wanting to offend people so I said Punjabi since it covers Indians as well. But you get the message

I am not saying Asim should open because he is scoring runs but because he has better tchnique compared to others. There is no point in getting all these flashy front foot drivers to open the innings and then keep shuffling between them and one or the other will score once in a while and the shuffle goes on with no settled openers ever !!

The basic requisite of an opener has to be met and most of the openers in recent years from Pakistan are found wanting. I have suggested Asim only for "trying out". Read my post ecause he seems equally comfortable of the backfoot, moves back and across confidentally and has an unflappable temprament.

As far as ruining his career is concerned, I dont know what you mean by that. I have heard of openers and I have heard of middle order batsmen but I have not heard of a youngster wanting to make a career for himself as a number six batsman !!!!

This is ridiculous. Of course, he may bat at number six since there isnt a vacant spot above that, afterall we have a batsman like Laxman playing at number six and when he was at number three Dravid was going at six, but that doesnt mean, Laxman has some qualities which "define" him as "suitable" for a number six spot ! If, God forbid, something was to happen to Dravid, Laxman would immediately revert to number three since that is his more preffered position and four and five are held by Sachin and Ganguly !!

Asim may or may not perform at opening but to suggest it will ruin his career is ridiculous. India played Laxmanm at the opening, he was not a great success, averaged 28 odd, scored a few fifties, a ninety and one magnificient 167 at Sydney. He wasnt happy but he stayed in the reckoning and there wasnt a place in the numbers three to six at that time.

Same with Sehwag. In his case it worked., and how !!

So while what I am suggesting may or may not work, it is not more ridiculous than asking someone like Yuvraj to open. India has had many keepers opening such as Pathive Patel, Mongia, Deep Das Gupta with varying degrees of success. Its a question of trying to meet a need in the best available fashion. Thats all.

If Afridi can open, why cant Asim Kamal ?

As far as captain. Yes I know he is not going to lead Pakistan. He is a youngster trying to make his place in the side. I just threw up his name.

Its more to admit that one doesnt see who could lead this Pakistan side and remark that it might as well be anyone. So why not Asim. If you see what I mean.

 

[SJS]

By the way, there are many examples of batsmen starting their careers lower down the order and later opening the innings with success. One who comes readily to mind is david Boon. He started at numbers 6 and 7, graduated to 5 and then 3, after 10 tests he was asked to open and scored the first of his 20 test centuries.

Opened with distinction averaging 45 plus as opener and had a similar average at number three where he reverted later in his career.

 

[Choora]

I know Sami is not a Punjabi. I did not want to say Pakistani aggression for not wanting to offend people so I said Punjabi since it covers Indians as well. But you get the message

I am not saying Asim should open because he is scoring runs but because he has better tchnique compared to others. There is no point in getting all these flashy front foot drivers to open the innings and then keep shuffling between them and one or the other will score once in a while and the shuffle goes on with no settled openers ever !!

The basic requisite of an opener has to be met and most of the openers in recent years from Pakistan are found wanting. I have suggested Asim only for "trying out". Read my post ecause he seems equally comfortable of the backfoot, moves back and across confidentally and has an unflappable temprament.
.

That i understand, proof is i have suggested Wajahat Wasti and Faisal Ather as possible openers and if you happen to know them then you will understand my point.

I have heard of openers and I have heard of middle order batsmen but I have not heard of a youngster wanting to make a career for himself as a number six batsman
This is ridiculous. Of course, he may bat at number six since there isnt a vacant spot above that, afterall we have a batsman like Laxman playing at number six and when he was at number three Dravid was going at six, but that doesnt mean, Laxman has some qualities which "define" him as "suitable" for a number six spot!!!!

Since Inzi and Youhanna aren't going to vacate their position then Asim can only be expected to bat at number six slot. Its not that the guy wanted to make a career as a number six batsman.But you have to understand that batting at one down in Pakistani team is like opening for Pakistan as openers hadly lasts many overs.And Asim has made it very clear that he isn't prepared for it.

Asim may or may not perform at opening but to suggest it will ruin his career is ridiculous. India played Laxmanm at the opening, he was not a great success, averaged 28 odd, scored a few fifties, a ninety and one magnificient 167 at Sydney. He wasnt happy but he stayed in the reckoning and there wasnt a place in the numbers three to six at that time.

Don't you have any idea how Pak selection committee works? if a players performs poorly in a couple of matches then he's forgotton, and someone lease takes his place.Asim's success was quickly forgotton when he scored ducks at one down slot and was omitted from the team later on.This is something that can happen again, quality players like Mohammad Waseem were destroyed by the messed up selectors in recent past.

If Afridi can open, why cant Asim Kamal ?

Afridi is a stop-gap, he isn't a long term solution , we all know that.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

By the way, there are many examples of batsmen starting their careers lower down the order and later opening the innings with success. One who comes readily to mind is david Boon. He started at numbers 6 and 7, graduated to 5 and then 3, after 10 tests he was asked to open and scored the first of his 20 test centuries.

Opened with distinction averaging 45 plus as opener and had a similar average at number three where he reverted later in his career.

Another one people forget is Justin Langer. Bred as a number three and had an up and down time of it, some great patches and some long runs of poor form too, and then he took up Slater's opening spot in the 5th Ashes test in 2001 and hasn't looked back.

 

[Mecnun]

I would try shoaib malik as our number three.. He has made a string of decent enough scores but hasnt capitalised on good beginnings. What he lacks in technique he makes up for with attitude, ability to learn/adjust and willingness to battle. Pity about his bowling but hopefully he is smart enough to resolve that.

In absence of any other talent coming forward to thake the no.3 spot he is as good a bet as younis/yasir IMO.

 

[SJS]

I would try shoaib malik as our number three.. He has made a string of decent enough scores but hasnt capitalised on good beginnings. What he lacks in technique he makes up for with attitude, ability to learn/adjust and willingness to battle. Pity about his bowling but hopefully he is smart enough to resolve that.

In absence of any other talent coming forward to thake the no.3 spot he is as good a bet as younis/yasir IMO.

I fully agree. He is a very mature test player and his game belies his relative lack of experience. He would be a good bet for number three.

 

[tooextracool]

i wonder if the pakistan selectors will ever get the brain to pick kamal in ODIs.

 

[Swervy]

i wonder if the pakistan selectors will ever get the brain to pick kamal in ODIs.

what if he doesnt want to play ODIs???

 

[tooextracool]

why would he not want to play ODIs?

 

[Swervy]

why would he not want to play ODIs?

coz Kamal's can be very stubborn you know

 

[tooextracool]

I am not saying Asim should open because he is scoring runs but because he has better tchnique compared to others. There is no point in getting all these flashy front foot drivers to open the innings and then keep shuffling between them and one or the other will score once in a while and the shuffle goes on with no settled openers ever !!

so you recommend sending a player out of position, simply because he is 'better than others'. absolute joke that. the way i look at it, you make a player play at his best position, not bat him in positions and make him less productive simply because he is better than others. its the same bright idea that brought fleming up the order, and hes making an absolute mockery of himself. the saying is valid here, if it aint broke why change it?

As far as ruining his career is concerned, I dont know what you mean by that. I have heard of openers and I have heard of middle order batsmen but I have not heard of a youngster wanting to make a career for himself as a number six batsman !!!!

no he will end up batting at 3 or 4, its how everyone makes their way into the side, before they get promoted. ricky ponting for one started off at 6 and now bats at 3, martyn too 6 to 4. you dont send someone to bat from 6 to 1 simply because there arent better players.

Asim may or may not perform at opening but to suggest it will ruin his career is ridiculous. India played Laxmanm at the opening, he was not a great success, averaged 28 odd, scored a few fifties, a ninety and one magnificient 167 at Sydney. He wasnt happy but he stayed in the reckoning and there wasnt a place in the numbers three to six at that time.

and you think there isnt a place in the reckoning in the fantastic pakistan middle order? kamal is a better batsman than everyone in the side bar inzamam combined.

If Afridi can open, why cant Asim Kamal ?

afridi can open????
where did you get that dumbfounding fact from?

 

[tooextracool]

I have never thought too much about Afridi but yesterday I was really impressed with him..
After Pathan bowled a bouncer which hit Afridi on his shoulder.. .That would have hurt like hell.. Afridi just gave Pathan a glare and hooked him for a six the next ball....

In the country where I live, I doubt if we have a single bowler who can bowl 130kph.. during the Champions Trophy vs. Kenya Afridi bowled 3-4 balls at 129 kph!! From a leg-spinners run-up... Amazing stuff

How much strength does this dude have?

not only that, hes the only player to who managed to successfully hit the roof of the millenium stadium in those england vs ROW games......full toss or not

 

[tooextracool]

Taufeeq, Farhat and Yasir are not international standard IMO. They all show technical defficiencies, play away from the body and have serious problems addressing a moving ball, and they do not look like learning.. Yasir is probably a better striker of the ball out of these three and possibly deserves a chance but the other two should not be allowed on the cricket pitch ..naa scrtach that I just remembered his 50 in aus where he was given 4 lives and still only managed a paltry 50. We need someone else to partner Butt, possibly Afridi but that is also a stop gap measure. To be honest we have not had a decent opening partnership since Amir & Anwar.

Agree with the rest..

hameed had real talent. pity his shot selection wasnt upto the mark though. bit surprising though that he was dropped after scoring consecutive 50s in his last test in australia.

 

[Mecnun]

hameed had real talent. pity his shot selection wasnt upto the mark though. bit surprising though that he was dropped after scoring consecutive 50s in his last test in australia.

He did not look all that confident scoring that 50. I honestly cant remember the first but the second was pure fluke..Like I mentioned he gave something like 4 clear cut chances and the Aussies just could'nt hold on to them. He looked totally out of sorts and I think that is the reason he was chopped.

 

[Gangster]

SJS, there was no need to start this insulting thread. It would be bad enough if you were an impartial spectator, but you are an Indian, and this could be viewed as baiting. Despite your evenhanded reputation, many Pakistanis could find the existence of the thread - and its creation by an Indian - as insulting.

 

[SJS]

SJS, there was no need to start this insulting thread. It would be bad enough if you were an impartial spectator, but you are an Indian, and this could be viewed as baiting. Despite your evenhanded reputation, many Pakistanis could find the existence of the thread - and its creation by an Indian - as insulting.

I am sorry if you think so. But I am very surprised indeed. May I ask which part of what i have written here offends you ? I would really appreciate being told.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I started this thread as an ojective excercise of assessing the strengths and weaknesses of this Pakistani team and if I am not mistaken, I have never, on this thread or elsewhere, ever insulted the Pakistani team, Pakistani people, or even suggested that Pakistani team were going to be thrashed by India or anything like that as has been done by people o supporting different teams.

I am honestly amazed at what you say and would like to have an opportunity to clarify if you tell me what offends you.

I would also like other Pakistani's posting here also to tell me if they found anything I said to be offensive.

 

[Gangster]

I am sorry if you think so. But I am very surprised indeed. May I ask which part of what i have written here offends you ? I would really appreciate being told.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I started this thread as an ojective excercise of assessing the strengths and weaknesses of this Pakistani team and if I am not mistaken, I have never, on this thread or elsewhere, ever insulted the Pakistani team, Pakistani people, or even suggested that Pakistani team were going to be thrashed by India or anything like that as has been done by people o supporting different teams.

I am honestly amazed at what you say and would like to have an opportunity to clarify if you tell me what offends you.

I would also like other Pakistani's posting here also to tell me if they found anything I said to be offensive.

I think the timing of your post, as India was finishing up a huge victory, along with the indisputable fact that you are an Indian contribute to the generally insulting feeling I believe emanates from this thread. If after Bangalore, should Pakistan win, if a Pakistani member starts a thread entitled "India: Pros and Cons", how do you think it would be received? Not well. I'm not saying you had any malicious intent, nor did I accuse you of that, so I do not appreciate your tone which implies that I had come out and accused you of trying to incite some sort of war. I was simply saying that this thread was in poor taste, considering all the circumstances involved.

Also when you ask for other Pakistanis to post, I hope you don't think I'm a Pakistani. I'm an Indian.

 

[SJS]

I think the timing of your post, as India was finishing up a huge victory, along with the indisputable fact that you are an Indian contribute to the generally insulting feeling I believe emanates from this thread. If after Bangalore, should Pakistan win, if a Pakistani member starts a thread entitled "India: Pros and Cons", how do you think it would be received? Not well. I'm not saying you had any malicious intent, nor did I accuse you of that, so I do not appreciate your tone which implies that I had come out and accused you of trying to incite some sort of war. I was simply saying that this thread was in poor taste, considering all the circumstances involved.

Also when you ask for other Pakistanis to post, I hope you don't think I'm a Pakistani. I'm an Indian.

Great !!

So let me tell you something. I was not insulting Pakistan, team, players, government people living or dead.

I dont think my post was in poor taste and my being an Indian has nothing to dpo with it. (I dont know if anyone thinks Imran's comments on Laxman the other day and Tendulkar in the past were in poor taste because Imran is a Pakistani). By your implications only Pakistanis should right about Pakistani weaknesses and so on. I am afraid I disagree. I write as a cricket lover and I love all cricketers irrespective of their nationality and enjoy their game and their success as long as the cricket is enjoyable .

If you are an Indian and feel my post was insulting to Pakistanis or offensive to their sentiments, I suggest you let them do that job and I will handle it appropriately, if and when it happens.

Thanks for your concern about the appropriateness or otherwise of my posts.

 

[tooextracool]

He did not look all that confident scoring that 50. I honestly cant remember the first but the second was pure fluke..Like I mentioned he gave something like 4 clear cut chances and the Aussies just could'nt hold on to them. He looked totally out of sorts and I think that is the reason he was chopped.

really?
i missed that test match and really most of that series so i wouldnt know what happened but its still rather surprising that theyd drop someone who had 2 50s to his credit. hopefully he can get his form and confidence back and work on his temperament and shot selection, hes still fairly young.