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Pak pacers used to tamper with the ball: Abdul Qadir
- Thread starter V Reddy
- Start date
Lions81
U19 Cricketer
I can see both points of view here.
From the Pakistani perspective, this is old news being drudged up now just to inflame passions. I mean, at this point, it just seems like the old excuse wheel being spun to try to shoot down the Pakistanis who were, at the time in question, probably the world's best alongside (and in the minds of some even better than) the West Indians.
But from the non-Pakistani perspective, finally the truth is being aired by people on the inside. Why would Abdul Qadir inform the authorities about ball tampering while he is on the side? First, he would be done with professional cricket, as no one wants a stool pigeon around, and two, he wants to win, and ball tampering helped his job as the primary spinner immensely in terms of the fast bowlers tearing through the better batsmen before Qadir came on to bowl.
In my opinion, there's no question Pakistani bowlers were tampering with the ball back then. Keeping one side of the ball shiny may induce reverse swing, but balls just don't swing at right angles, and somehow Imran Khan and his fellow fast bowlers seemed to able to do just that. But that being said, who really cares now anyway? It seems that people just want Imran to come out and admit it so they can feel better about themselves.
As far as Botham and Lamb are concerned, ball tampering didn't make their bowlers give up massive scores to the Pakistani batsmen, so really I think there were more factors which contributed to the Pakistani domination of the 80s than just ball tampering, though it obviously helped.
From the Pakistani perspective, this is old news being drudged up now just to inflame passions. I mean, at this point, it just seems like the old excuse wheel being spun to try to shoot down the Pakistanis who were, at the time in question, probably the world's best alongside (and in the minds of some even better than) the West Indians.
But from the non-Pakistani perspective, finally the truth is being aired by people on the inside. Why would Abdul Qadir inform the authorities about ball tampering while he is on the side? First, he would be done with professional cricket, as no one wants a stool pigeon around, and two, he wants to win, and ball tampering helped his job as the primary spinner immensely in terms of the fast bowlers tearing through the better batsmen before Qadir came on to bowl.
In my opinion, there's no question Pakistani bowlers were tampering with the ball back then. Keeping one side of the ball shiny may induce reverse swing, but balls just don't swing at right angles, and somehow Imran Khan and his fellow fast bowlers seemed to able to do just that. But that being said, who really cares now anyway? It seems that people just want Imran to come out and admit it so they can feel better about themselves.
As far as Botham and Lamb are concerned, ball tampering didn't make their bowlers give up massive scores to the Pakistani batsmen, so really I think there were more factors which contributed to the Pakistani domination of the 80s than just ball tampering, though it obviously helped.
Lions81
U19 Cricketer
From the eye-opening article Sehwag309 posted, it appears that Botham sued Imran Khan based on a comment Imran said to the effect that every bowler had been ball-tampering in the past few years, and Botham took offense as he was one bowler operating during that timeframe, and so Imran had been in essence accusing him of ball tampering as well. So Youhanna, I'd be careful, because Botham appears to like to sue people on baseless grounds at the drop of a hat, merely at the slightest hint of an insult.Youhanna said:
warrioryohannan
U19 Cricketer
Swervy said:
If you target a particular community than maybe its not that bad but when you insult an entire country then it does suggest something!
Just to remind you guys, Bothom said that he hated Pakisatan and it was a country where when should send their mother in Law.
Deja moo
International Captain
Botham's views on both the "mother in law" and the " country of convicts" are well known......but here we are concerned with cricket only, not their personal views(atleast in theory
)
So we accept Qadirs statement that the Pakistani's tampered with the ball....after all Qadir has much to lose from all this, his son being very much in the running for selection for the national team......
)So we accept Qadirs statement that the Pakistani's tampered with the ball....after all Qadir has much to lose from all this, his son being very much in the running for selection for the national team......
Swervy
International Captain
no..there was infact a much more specific implication by Imran that Botham may have tampered with the ball.Lions81 said:
And hey...Pakistan isnt particularly a place I really want to go to either...nothing to do with race or anything.
Botham had a particularly bad time of it in Pakistan, he got injured etc...and once he actually bit into a boiled egg, and discovered he had eaten half a unhatched chick..so I guess fair do's to him if he didnt particualrly like the place.
I would say one thing Botham isnt is racist
This has completely changed the course of the topic.....there is much to suggest that these 'great' bowlers were cheats.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
It's not new.
Why do you thing bowlers always used to have long thumb nails?
Why do you thing bowlers always used to have long thumb nails?
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Sehwag309 said:
Tee hee.
Seam-picking went on a long while ago - quarter-seam picking too.
maxpower
U19 Cricketer
I think most fast bowlers did it, not just pak bowlers. It was easy to get away with at that time, and I think if you can get away with, people do it. Also I am tired of all old players accusing ball tampering and chucking issue. Alot of people got away with strange actions in bowling, just because of technology not being there. Thats right Bedi you know you chucked it occasionally so stop calling every other bowler a chucker. :angry:
Sehwag309 said:
Botham has been known to make racists remarks towards Pakistanis. Dont know about Lamb.
Imran has only ever claimed to use the bottle top in an inconsequential county game although I think he has said that lifting the seam back into position on an old ball has been happening in cricket since time immomorial and should not be outlawed. He also claimed that alot of bowlers through history have done it and do it.
The question is why pick on Pakistani bowlers, why not the rest of the world.
i dont think he is. just coz they are highly publicised doesnt mean that pak bowlers are the only ones who have done it and others are saints. you dont have to believe me but i'm sure you would have respect these views:
West Indies fast bowling great Michael Holding:
"You can ask any fast bowler. If he says he has never tampered with the ball, he either has just started playing, or is lying. Ball-tampering has been going on for donkey's years, and started long before I was born. It is only now, because of television, that people are becoming more and more aware of it. When I played in England, ball-tampering was rampant in county cricket. I saw many bowlers tamper with the ball, like picking the seam, or applying foreign stuff. I did not know anybody used things like bottle stoppers until I heard about it recently. I wouldn't pretend I never tampered with the ball."
Sir Richard Hadlee:
"...there have been subtle ways over the years of mucking about with the ball that allows it to do things like reverse swing after 40 or 50 overs and takes the batsman by surprise...."
Imran Khan:
"....David Lloyd, former captain of Lancashire, has said seam-lifting is an old English tradition.
Then you see the Australian cricketers with sun-cream over their faces. They keep wiping sweat from their faces mixed with this cream and rubbing it on the ball It is ball-tampering......."
Former England coach David Lloyd:
"....Brian Statham, the great Lancashire and England bowler, was a master at lifting the seam, but with the ball in just one hand. Now that is class. ..
...Peter Lee, who joined Lancashire from Northamptonshire in the mid-1970s and twice took 100 wickets in a season was 'caught at it' by an umpire, strongly rumoured to have been the doyen of seam-picking in his day...
...After inspecting the ball, he said to Lee: 'I would have been proud of that myself. If you do not get seven wickets with it I'll have to report you....
...On one occasion at Old Trafford, when I was captain of Lancashire, the ball was not swinging at all. I happened to have about my person a tube of lip ice and I smeared a touch on the ball. Unfortunately, I did not have time to rub it in....
...The ball eventually found its way back to our fast bowler Ken Shuttleworth at the end of his run-up. I was about 50 metres away from Ken as he bellowed: 'I can't grip this ball. There's some stuff on it.....
....I started to give the umpire the usual excuses of the ball having been trodden on when he got in first.. .."
if you still dont get the picture there's no point arguing with you.
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godofcricket
State 12th Man
Well your comments sound like that of a looser and of a person who cant accept that Pakistani bowlers were and still are the masters of swing not only when the ball is new but also when the ball is old where not many people can swing it at all.Swervy said:
It is already a fact, you might not accept that most of the fast bowlers around the world have been tampering for years and just because Pakistan have won a world cup doesnt mean that they won it because of tampering and you have no grounds to prove it and neither did any one else who had a doubt. And since we all know that everyone has been doing it for years now and according to your proposed theory how can you be sure that any country who has won a world cup did it fairly? You just sound like a person with a biased opinion.
About Abdul Qadir i would say that you guys should also read that before jumping to any conclusions
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/609043.cms
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I reckon it was very common - seam-picking and the like. I was shown how to do it - and that was just at village level.Swervy said: