Opinions on The Super Series

[tooextracool]

I think the one crucial point throughout the Super Series so far is that the cricket has been of remarkably high quality.

have you actually watched any of the cricket or what?
high quality cricket is what we saw in the ashes this summer, in both the ODIs and tests.
what we're seeing right now is an absolute appalling display from out of touch and non interested big name players.

 

[tooextracool]

Vettori bowling rubbish and getting superb figures

get off it, do you actually watch finger spinners bowl? or do you just come to the conclusion that they cant bowl simply because they are finger spinners and therefore whatever they do must be rubbish. vettori has maintained an ER of under 4.3 after playing ODI cricket for 8 years, and if you honestly think hes bowled rubbish throughout, then you are deluding yourself. not only did he get the ball to drift in this series, hes also use flight and varied his pace around beautifully and hes accomplished all of this with barely any assistance from the pitch.

 

[Zinzan]

have you actually watched any of the cricket or what?
high quality cricket is what we saw in the ashes this summer, in both the ODIs and tests.
what we're seeing right now is an absolute appalling display from out of touch and non interested big name players.

Totally agree!!!....with the possible exception of Murali, Vettori and Sangakkara who were the only world XI players who played anywhere close to their true ability

 

[Richard]

So you're saying bowlers never work well in pairs then?

Have you ever actually watched Cricket?

Er, of course bowlers bowling at the same time can be effective.
Is it a case of two bowlers bowling one ball?
No.
It's a case of two indivdiuals complimenting each other well.

 

[Richard]

get off it, do you actually watch finger spinners bowl? or do you just come to the conclusion that they cant bowl simply because they are finger spinners and therefore whatever they do must be rubbish. vettori has maintained an ER of under 4.3 after playing ODI cricket for 8 years, and if you honestly think hes bowled rubbish throughout, then you are deluding yourself. not only did he get the ball to drift in this series, hes also use flight and varied his pace around beautifully and hes accomplished all of this with barely any assistance from the pitch.

In the Third game, certainly - in the Second he didn't bowl well at all.
I've readily admitted (in another thread) that I've not seen a tremendous amount of Vettori bowling in ODIs and all I've said is that whenever I've seen him he's not been very good.
How many times do I have to say that it is perfectly possible to bowl fingerspin in ODIs on non-turning pitches, if you bowl it at 55+mph, bowl it flat, vary your flight and pace every now and then, get loop and drift and keep a very close eye on the batsmen for any premeditated use of feet.

 

[Zinzan]

In the Third game, certainly - in the Second he didn't bowl well at all.
I've readily admitted (in another thread) that I've not seen a tremendous amount of Vettori bowling in ODIs and all I've said is that whenever I've seen him he's not been very good.
How many times do I have to say that it is perfectly possible to bowl fingerspin in ODIs on non-turning pitches, if you bowl it at 55+mph, bowl it flat, vary your flight and pace every now and then, get loop and drift and keep a very close eye on the batsmen for any premeditated use of feet.

Again you can't have payed much attention to that second game where vettori had his worst return of the series ...10- 54-0........Might I remind you that in the match Australia scored at a shade under 7 per over and Gilchrist was rampant. The fact Vettori meanwhile only conceded 5.4 per over in by far his worst spell of the series (the other two being 4-33 and 1-34) is testimont to his great skill as a bowler......Its certainly no fluke !!

 

[Richard]

5.4-an-over is poor, no matter what.
The only reason Australia scored 7-an-over is that the other bowlers were even worse than Vettori. Murali excepted, obviously.

 

[marc71178]

vettori has maintained an ER of under 4.3 after playing ODI cricket for 8 years

Yes, and the reason we've been given for that is he's just been lucky because batsmen have never gone after him.

Coincidentally the same reason Giles has an ER of 4.34...

 

[marc71178]

Er, of course bowlers bowling at the same time can be effective.
Is it a case of two bowlers bowling one ball?
No.
It's a case of two indivdiuals complimenting each other well.

It's a case of them working together as a team - which is not the same as 2 indivduals.

 

[marc71178]

5.4-an-over is poor, no matter what.

So if Team A make 300 in 50 overs on a belter with short boundaries and all the Team A bowlers bowl their 10 overs for 54, would that be poor?

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, and the reason we've been given for that is he's just been lucky because batsmen have never gone after him.

err why would batsmen go after other spinners and not go after him? vettori has actually bowled well over a very long period of time.

Coincidentally the same reason Giles has an ER of 4.34...

giles' ER goes down to 4.47 when you remove games against zimbabwe and bangladesh. not to mention that giles has played about 1/3 times the number of ODIs vettori has played. Giles is a decent spinner to have in ODIs but hes certainly no where near as good as vettori is and is just about ODI class.

 

[Top_Cat]

TEC: Read Marc's post again when you climb out of the sachasm.

(admittedly it's sometimes tough to tell with him).

 

[Zinzan]

5.4-an-over is poor, no matter what.
The only reason Australia scored 7-an-over is that the other bowlers were even worse than Vettori. Murali excepted, obviously.

What rubbish....On a perfect batting pitch against a good batting side where 300ish would be par 5.4 is not that bad (especially considering that was his worst performance of the series)

 

[Zinzan]

Yes, and the reason we've been given for that is he's just been lucky because batsmen have never gone after him.

Coincidentally the same reason Giles has an ER of 4.34...

Please don't start the comparison between Vettori and Giles again Marc ...It has been done to death and there is none....The only thing they have in common is that they are both Left arm bowlers

 

[marc71178]

I'm not trying the comparison here, more just pointing out a sweeping generalisation from Richard (one of many he has over left arm spinners) - both of them have very good ER in ODI's for this era, but it's been dismissed as pure luck just because they've "never been hammered"

 

[Richard]

It's a case of them working together as a team - which is not the same as 2 indivduals.

If 2 individuals bowl well they can (and usually do) compliment each other.
But if 1 individual bowls well and 1 poorly they can't compliment each other.

 

[Richard]

So if Team A make 300 in 50 overs on a belter with short boundaries and all the Team A bowlers bowl their 10 overs for 54, would that be poor?

Depends how short the boundaries are.
Obviously if boundaries are stupidly short then you can forgive an economy-rate which would normally be poor.
As far as I'm concerned you can just write-off games such as that, and take little or no note of anything, because once the boundaries get too short it devalues a one-day game.

 

[Richard]

I'm not trying the comparison here, more just pointing out a sweeping generalisation from Richard (one of many he has over left arm spinners) - both of them have very good ER in ODI's for this era, but it's been dismissed as pure luck just because they've "never been hammered"

When the hell have I used any generalisations over left-arm spinners.
The one simple rule that applies to most fingerspinners (nothing to do with right-arm\left-arm) is that they're not much use in ODIs or Tests because they're pretty easy to hammer.
And Giles' economy-rate will very possibly go up.

 

[Richard]

What rubbish....On a perfect batting pitch against a good batting side where 300ish would be par 5.4 is not that bad (especially considering that was his worst performance of the series)

No matter how good a batting pitch accuracy is still accuracy and is equally difficult to get away.
300 is never par against an attack that's got even 1 good bowler.

 

[marc71178]

The one simple rule that applies to most fingerspinners (nothing to do with right-arm\left-arm) is that they're not much use in ODIs or Tests because they're pretty easy to hammer.

So how come of the (about 3 regular ones in the world), how come 2 of them have very respectable ERs in ODIs?

Let me guess, 4 letters, begins with L and rhymes with ****?