OK to taunt Murali says MacGill

[sideshowtim]

Exactly. The abuse I've seen directed at Murali is nothing short of disgraceful and as far as I'm concerned, there's no justification for it nor is there justification for saying he should just deal with it.

No player should have to deal with racial abuse, but I hardly think that's the case in Australia anymore as you get the boot for it. Only random idiots here and there get kicked out for it. By and large, a majority of the taunting towards Murali is FAR from racial.

 

[Chubby Rain]

...That's not a very good argument.

It essentially boils down to harmless taunting versus questioning the very legitimacy of his presence on a cricket field. Once you call a person a chucker, you aren't indulging in banter, you're indulging in slander.

 

[sideshowtim]

It essentially boils down to harmless taunting versus questioning the very legitimacy of his presence on a cricket field. Once you call a person a chucker, you aren't indulging in banter, you're indulging in slander.

And you think other cricketers don't endure what is technically 'slander'? Some of the things I've heard Indian players called at the cricket...sheesh. Goes further than slander. Not once have I seen them complain about it.

 

[Dasa]

No player should have to deal with racial abuse, but I hardly think that's the case in Australia anymore as you get the boot for it. Only random idiots here and there get kicked out for it. By and large, a majority of the taunting towards Murali is FAR from racial.

I've seen it with my own two eyes, and I've seen that making complaints is largely futile as well.

 

[Richard]

There were rumours (massively unsubstantiated) at the time that Adam Gilchrist's child was actually Michael Slater's who was rumoured to have slept with Gilchrist's wife (once again, unsubstantiated). They were taunting him about this all game, singing songs about it all game. Gilly responds by smacking a double ton, said he'd never bee angrier, but what a way to respond.

Lucky for him Kallis dropped that sitter at slip, really, wasn't it?

And please don't tell me Warne wouldn't have had some less than pleasant abuse, because that just isn't the case. Even Aussies gave it to him mate. Ever wondered why he loved staying in the slips so much? And no not just because he's a lazy sob...

Always thought it was because he was a good slipper TBH...

Seriously, am surprised if Aussie crowds genuinely taunt him, and as I say - he's always been positively revered deep down by most over here, and I've had the impression it's the same in West Indies.

Possibly not in New Zealand, but obviously there's been some unbelievable crap that's happened when Aussies are involved there.

 

[Chubby Rain]

And you think other cricketers don't endure what is technically 'slander'? Some of the things I've heard Indian players called at the cricket...sheesh. Goes further than slander. Not once have I seen them complain about it.

Think of it as dozens of Sarwans sitting in the crowd and throwing the "Ask your wife" line at McGrath, only with genuine malice instead of witty repartee.

 

[sideshowtim]

Think of it as dozens of Sarwans sitting in the crowd and throwing the "Ask your wife" line at McGrath, only with genuine malice instead of witty repartee.

I'm sure McGrath has been subject to worse than "ask your wife" from crowds in a variety of places in the world. As always, Aussies just shrug it off. Or as Justin Langer did to one Indian supporter when I was there, flip them off lol...

No point whinging about it, since as I said, it just incites people more.

 

[Chubby Rain]

I'm sure McGrath has been subject to worse than "ask your wife" from crowds in a variety of places in the world. As always, Aussies just shrug it off. Or as Justin Langer did to one Indian supporter when I was there, flip them off lol...

No point whinging about it, since as I said, it just incites people more.

Then I find it odd that McGrath would totally lose it over a comment you say is not as worse as some others he's had to supposedly endure and shrug off.

 

[sideshowtim]

Then I find it odd that McGrath would totally lose it over a comment you say is not as worse as some others he's had to supposedly endure and shrug off.

Bowling to someone in a vital part of a vital test is a bit different to sitting on the boundary waiting for a ball to come. His reaction to the Sarwan incident was very much "heat of the moment" kind of stuff.

 

[nightprowler10]

Ever wondered why he loved staying in the slips so much? And no not just because he's a lazy sob...

Because he's fat?

 

[Chubby Rain]

Bowling to someone in a vital part of a vital test is a bit different to sitting on the boundary waiting for a ball to come. His reaction to the Sarwan incident was very much "heat of the moment" kind of stuff.

Yes, but surely other players must have had opposition players bring in their wives into the trash talk that goes on in the field. If McGrath is allowed genuine hurt at a barb (and the vital part of a vital test situation doesn't really matter since it was McGrath himself who started the little conversation), surely Murali is too ?

 

[Ikki]

Was this constant taunting, the like of which Dasa pointed-out Murali has suffered virtually non-stop throughout his career?

I'm actually not even sure to what you refer either TBH. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I've not heard of it.

This the same Warne who gained as his final cry from the crowds over here "We wish you were English"?

Mostly with Warne, in my experience, there's a friendly, even loving, undertone to some of the "abuse". Absolutely no way is there ever any such thing with Murali - it's pure vitriol, nothing less.

Actually, Warne, although even liked in England, had been taunted about his divorce/weight/drug allegations throughout. Murali has only played 3 tests in Australia, how many has Warne in England?

The main difference being that Warne wouldn't react like Murali. As reported, he was crying in the dressing rooms when his marriage was falling apart but played arguably the greatest bowling performance in a test series.

 

[Ikki]

Exactly. The abuse I've seen directed at Murali is nothing short of disgraceful and as far as I'm concerned, there's no justification for it nor is there justification for saying he should just deal with it.

I don't think people are saying he should deal with it because they think it's justified. I think it's not justified, but I think he can do himself some favours and ignore the hooligans, for he will only incite more lunacy towards himself.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Haven't we seen people get done by the police for making even such wholly understandible gestures, it being seen as inciteful?

None immediately spring to mind, I have to say. Paul Gascoigne was castigated for doing a "sash" (imitating the flute players of the Orange marching orders) whilst playing for Rangers against Celtic as was Mark Bosnich for doing a Hitler salute to T*ttenham fans (who traditionally have a large Jewish following), but I don't think either related in actual charges. However both were overtly sectarian gestures and probably reflect more on the respective players lack of grey matter than anything else.

Mido was booked tho, in an display of soulless jobsworthness by the ref.

There is a difference between good natured needling and the quite mean-spirited racist abuse that is oftentimes directed towards certain players.

See that just muddies the waters. I don't think anyone is condoning racist abuse &, moreover, if the abuse aimed at Murali was just simple, ****-witted racism it wouldn't reflect too well on him that he left his team-mates (all similarly south Asian) to face it.

 

[Richard]

None immediately spring to mind, I have to say. Paul Gascoigne was castigated for doing a "sash" (imitating the flute players of the Orange marching orders) whilst playing for Rangers against Celtic as was Mark Bosnich for doing a Hitler salute to T*ttenham fans (who traditionally have a large Jewish following), but I don't think either related in actual charges. However both were overtly sectarian gestures and probably reflect more on the respective players lack of grey matter than anything else.

Mido was booked tho, in an display of soulless jobsworthness by the ref.

Those two (and I remember the Bosnich-Nazi one only too well - I'm certain there was some sort of charge too) are extreme examples - I'm certain I've heard of the police having words with players simply for going over to opposition sections and just making a slightly-OTT-celebration.

I can't think of any specific examples either - perhaps because I seem to remember it happening so many times.

 

[Richard]

Actually, Warne, although even liked in England, had been taunted about his divorce/weight/drug allegations throughout. Murali has only played 3 tests in Australia, how many has Warne in England?

Since the divorce and drug cases, just 5.

As I say - the taunts seemed to me to be very much poking-harmless-fun. I got the impression that neither those doing the shouting (or, at least, most of them) took things all that seriously, and the "we wish you were English" round-off contributed to that.

Commentators are similarly fickle over here: people loved nothing more than to jump on the "is Warne maybe not what he was?" bandwagon, even as early as 2001; yet when he performed once again, it was always the same "ah, you can't keep a great man down".

The main difference being that Warne wouldn't react like Murali. As reported, he was crying in the dressing rooms when his marriage was falling apart but played arguably the greatest bowling performance in a test series.

Never heard that before actually. However - what makes Warne's way of dealing with things right and Murali's wrong? How are they not equally legitimate?

 

[Ikki]

Since the divorce and drug cases, just 5.

As I say - the taunts seemed to me to be very much poking-harmless-fun. I got the impression that neither those doing the shouting (or, at least, most of them) took things all that seriously, and the "we wish you were English" round-off contributed to that.

Commentators are similarly fickle over here: people loved nothing more than to jump on the "is Warne maybe not what he was?" bandwagon, even as early as 2001; yet when he performed once again, it was always the same "ah, you can't keep a great man down".

Never heard that before actually. However - what makes Warne's way of dealing with things right and Murali's wrong? How are they not equally legitimate?

We're talking about the Ashes, and I fail to remember when Warne first started playing them the English fans were singing "We wish you were English", those chants didn't come till after a while.

And I was just showing you, in the same series that they said "We wish you were English", some of the fans were having a go at him. There will always be a few against you, and if you give in to them you will incite more idiocy towards you. What is worse, when said player goes and says something about the crowd as a whole, it naturally turns the rest against him too.

Guys like Nel and Panesar came to Australia and took some stick and after they stuck it out they became mini heroes.

What I am trying to convey that it is not about legitimacy or being wrong or right. The fans don't obviously care if you are right, but if you want to tour with the least stick against you, you can do yourself some favours and not behave in a certain way. Who knows, in the end you may win them over, even though that isn't the point. But to let two parties just duke it out, both thinking themselves justified, it will never reach an end. Murali can check himself, but the whole of Australia cannot check some idiots in the crowd.

 

[archie mac]

Since the divorce and drug cases, just 5.

As I say - the taunts seemed to me to be very much poking-harmless-fun. I got the impression that neither those doing the shouting (or, at least, most of them) took things all that seriously, and the "we wish you were English" round-off contributed to that.

Chanting someone is a 'fat c' hardly seems like fun to me

 

[Richard]

We're talking about the Ashes, and I fail to remember when Warne first started playing them the English fans were singing "We wish you were English", those chants didn't come till after a while.

And I was just showing you, in the same series that they said "We wish you were English", some of the fans were having a go at him.

I know that - the point I was making was that the having-a-go came first. I presume Warne copped some stick in 1997 and 2001 too, but I wasn't really taking as close a note in those seasons as I was in 2005. In 2005, he copped some stick, only a tiny amount of which seemed to me to have any malice at all, then the series was rounded-off by chants of "we wish you were English".

Which seems to me to bear no resemblence at all to what Murali's copped in Australia.

There will always be a few against you, and if you give in to them you will incite more idiocy towards you. What is worse, when said player goes and says something about the crowd as a whole, it naturally turns the rest against him too.

Guys like Nel and Panesar came to Australia and took some stick and after they stuck it out they became mini heroes.

What I am trying to convey that it is not about legitimacy or being wrong or right. The fans don't obviously care if you are right, but if you want to tour with the least stick against you, you can do yourself some favours and not behave in a certain way. Who knows, in the end you may win them over, even though that isn't the point. But to let two parties just duke it out, both thinking themselves justified, it will never reach an end. Murali can check himself, but the whole of Australia cannot check some idiots in the crowd.

I've never once said that Murali is not likely to cause them to behave even more stupidly towards him by acting this way. Not once. It's very obvious he will.

All I've ever said is that it's forgiveable for him to act in the way he has.

 

[Richard]

Chanting someone is a 'fat c' hardly seems like fun to me

It depends, really, TBH. Some people use that phrase harmlessly - I know several people who call something along those lines on a daily basis. It's just who they are, and it doesn't offend me. If these were guys I knew hated me, I would assume that they actually meant it.

I don't know Warne, of course. But he strikes me as far more like the sort of guy who'd take that as "'avin' a laff" than would Murali were he to be called similar things. And if someone doesn't like being called some potentially-offensive-term, IMO you have no right calling him it. If he doesn't take offence at such terminology, there's not really any great harm using it towards him.