*Official* Zimbabwe in Australia Thread

[Craig]

This is the best I have seen Bichel bowl in a test match , I think the day is fast approaching when he will replace Lee in Australias best test XI , Lee's actually not that inaccurate anymore , he is just a two length bowler who gets impatient to quickly.

His ball to get Streak was unplayable , why? , because he hit the right length , if only he did that more often then what a bowler he would be.

It's Lee's impatience that he will not be a world class bowler.

Oh Eclipse I will be ignoring that comment if you were trying to get a harsh reply.

Oh and I know quite a bit about the game and if you dont like it, dont reply, you know my thoughts on players so you know what you are getting yourself into.

 

[Craig]

And thats why wee need to keep him in the team. He is a two length bowler allthough less than last year but he is actualy quite accurate when he has to be. basicly once it clicks in his head "right this is how I have to bowl in test matches to be a great fast bowler" he will just go from strength to strength.

But shouldnt he be doing this at FC cricket first then at Test level?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But shouldnt he be doing this at FC cricket first then at Test level?

Australia can most certainly afford to let him do it at Test level though. That's the quickest way for him to learn - trial by fire.

 

[iamdavid]

What do all you guys think of Brad Williams?

 

[roofromoz]

Ervine has alos shown improvment since the England tour he made a very good fifty and his bowling was by far the best off all of the Zimbabwe bowlers including Streak.

Yeah, I think Sean Ervine has been Zimbabwe's best in this match... his bowling was thoughtful, and got rewarded with a 4 wicket haul. And in the second innings, he seemed to be the only one who took it to the Australian bowlers, and in the process got a 50.

I think the Zimbabweans need to change their attitude with their batting. They should be a bit more adventurous.

 

[roofromoz]

What do all you guys think of Brad Williams?

He deserves a go if Gillespie can't recover in time. Being 12th man in the 1st Test indicates that he is next in line.

 

[Rik]

Ervine has alos shown improvment since the England tour he made a very good fifty and his bowling was by far the best off all of the Zimbabwe bowlers including Streak.

Yeah but Streak was simply superb during the entire tour of England, whilst Ervine looked barely even county standard.

 

[marc71178]

Oh and I know quite a bit about the game

Pity you can't share your knowledge with us rather than just looking at numbers.

 

[V Reddy]

Yeah but Streak was simply superb during the entire tour of England, whilst Ervine looked barely even county standard.

Ervine looks like a better player than Nkala, doesn't he? :saint:

 

[Richard]

I really wish people would stop going-on about Lee's strike-rate, it seems to be just about all people can find that is good about him.
The fact of the matter is that averages speak louder than strike-rates and in the last 3 years Lee's average has been going in only one direction, and that is up. He couldn't even average under 30 against Bangladesh.
Lee and Bichel might have been economical enough in this match, but I'd like to see them bowl in the 7 Tests against India, because I can't help feeling that Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly will punish them rather more.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Ervine looks like a better player than Nkala, doesn't he? :saint:

Let's not start over-rating him now.

 

[age_master]

But shouldnt he be doing this at FC cricket first then at Test level?

why, when he is good enough to play in tests, hes got 129 wickets at a SR of 50.7, better than anyone else with over 100 wickets in Australian test cricket history, better than Lillee, Topmson, Gillespie, Macgill, McGrath, Reid. and he has eben improving alot over the last year in particular. just because hes attackibg and concedes more runs than McGrath and Gillespie doesn't make his a bad bowler, but hes looked a hell of alot better than Heath streak in this match, his Economy almost half of what streaks has been, on a pitch that dosn't really suit him, why do people rate heath streak?? you must also remember that the season has just started for Australia and bhes still a little rusty, he will be much better in sydney

 

[The Argonaut]

Hogg and Williams will replace the injured duo. They will not risk these guys with more important matches against India coming up. I also think that the new ball will be shared between Lee and Williams with Bichel at first change. I think Williams will use the new ball better. White is not ready yet and if they pick another pace bowler to be 12th man then Bracken will get the nod. Noffke is coming back from injury and hasn't bowled in a while.

There was a good line in the papers about Hayden' innings in comparing it to others on the high score list. It suggested that it should rate with the others because all of teh scores were scored on very flat pitches. Any attack would have struggled against Hayden in the mood he was in on that pitch. Despite not being as elegant as some he gets the job done against all opposition in all conditions. You shouldn't stay in any side just because you look good. Hussain may have only played in a handful of tests if he was Australian. His average just doesn't cut it.

Lara's innings was also scored on a road of a pitch against ordinary bowling. Just because it was against England doesn't make it greater than Hayden's. Caddick and Fraser were mentioned as 2 of the bowlers in that game. Let's face it if Caddick doesn't get a wicket early he's terrible especially in the first innings and Fraser isn't that good a bowler.

So let's give Hayden his dues and leave it at that.

 

[Rik]

and Fraser isn't that good a bowler

How on earth did you come up with that? 8-53 against the WIndies with Lara in his prime says your wrong...

 

[gibbsnsmith]

Frasier was a very good bowler reminscent of Glenn Mcgrath to me. Explain that 8/53 then? A fluke?

 

[Top_Cat]

The fact of the matter is that averages speak louder than strike-rates and in the last 3 years Lee's average has been going in only one direction, and that is up. He couldn't even average under 30 against Bangladesh.

That's not a fact at all. Neither of them speak louder than the other in a factual sense. If you place more weight in an average, fine but that's entirely opinionative. My personal opinion is that it depend upon the bowler but in general, I look at strike-rates more than averages. Last I checked, a bowler's role was to take wickets and since strike-rates measure the frequency at which a bowler takes wickets, I'd put more stock in that than how many runs a bowler concedes per wicket. Again, my opinion though.

His ball to get Streak was unplayable , why? , because he hit the right length , if only he did that more often then what a bowler he would be.

That ball wasn't the 'right length' at all. It was an unplayable out-swinging ball. If anyone was able to hit that length and line more consistently, they'd average under 10.

.On an unrelated note, call me a cynic but there seems to be an excess of bagging players on the forum of late and very little in the way of objective analysis or even (heaven forbid!) praise. How about we all try to be a little more constructive, eh?

 

[The Argonaut]

Frasier was a very good bowler reminscent of Glenn Mcgrath to me. Explain that 8/53 then? A fluke?

Allan Border took 7 for against the Windies in their prime and I wouldn't call him a great bowler either.

 

[Top_Cat]

Allan Border took 7 for against the Windies in their prime and I wouldn't call him a great bowler either.

Translation: I conceded that Angus Fraser is a good bowler. My deepest apologies for inferring otherwise.

 

[anzac]

just on the Lee debate.......

hasn't he had to change his action since that elbow injury?
and I also believe that he has suffered (like Vincent) regarding his role in the side, especially between the 2 forms of the game.

Waugh used him in Tests & ODIs to blast out batsmen, but more importantly to intimidate them - RPO was not a consideration even in ODIs. When he came back from injury he was bowling a bit sorter & wider & had seemed to have lost that late movement from a good line & length both in the air & off the pitch- he could only get it more regularly when bowling shorter & wider. The batsmen got a better look at the ball and he did not take so many wickets & conceeded more runs. Then the debate started re his RPO in ODIs and he was asked to change his role between the 2 (several times).

IMO he is still trying to improve his skill, let alone his role in the team which depends upon who else is in the side - McGrath is super accurate & takes wickets so Lee can concentrate on raw pace. Likewise Dizzy is also more accurate since he has had to change his action thru injury and has lost some pace. Lee has little experience at international level bowling without these 2, let alone as the senior seam bowler, and has to get used to another role as a consequence which does not happen overnight.

 

[Eclipse]

I would not be supprised if Lee's avrage improves under Ponting's Captaincy.

Lee's ODI avrage was going the same way as his test avrage starting to get close to 30 up untill Ponting took over. Ponting made it clear he wanted Lee to concede less runs and and since then his ODI econ has gone down from 4.89 to 4.6 and his avrage has improved form 28 to 21.43.