*Official* West Indies Tour of England 2020

[vcs]

India tried it with Rohit and it worked though (maybe too early to conclude given he didn't play in NZ where he'd likely have sucked)

 

[Howe_zat]

Both examples of big-brained selectors thinking that ODIs are more relevant than FC for tests.

Half the time they are. Cricket is littered with players who couldn't make the leap from FC to Tests, but that just happens to be seen as more acceptable.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah at least ODI success means you can handle top level bowling

FC success only proves you have test temperament

 

[morgieb]

I agree neither of them are foolproof, but AFAIC there's significantly more history of players with great FC records but a meh ODI one succeeding at Test level than the other way around.

 

[Howe_zat]

I agree neither of them are foolproof, but AFAIC there's significantly more history of players with great FC records but a meh ODI one succeeding at Test level than the other way around.

Disagree. If you look at records alone this is going to be disguised by the fact that Tests are first class games, and so a lot of players that succeded Tests despite having an ordinary first class record end up with a good first class record retrospectively.

 

[vcs]

ODIs have changed also, it's become unrecognizable to the game it used to be even 20 years ago.

Have to take it on a case-by-case basis and use the old-fashioned eye test a lot TBH, to work out whether a player's technique is likely to translate to the longest form.

 

[honestbharani]

I am not questioning the thought process that gets them to think a Rohit or a Finch or a Roy would make good test batsmen, I just question the logic that thinks they will make good test openers. Also Rohit is different because he does have a stellar FC record and his home conditions (where he will play majority of his games) does not demand the tightest of techniques.

 

[morgieb]

ODIs have changed also, it's become unrecognizable to the game it used to be even 20 years ago.

Have to take it on a case-by-case basis and use the old-fashioned eye test a lot TBH, to work out whether a player's technique is likely to translate to the longest form.

Yeah this. For example I think Pooran should be selected. But I think there is a clear difference between someone like Babar Azam and Jason Roy for example (which I think was the kind of player that Howe was referencing?), and if the choice is between Ollie Pope and pre-Test Eoin Morgan, I'd go Pope.

I do however think at least with bats those with exceptional FC records failing at Tests tend to be the exception rather than a norm. And the majority that did were often poorly handled. Bowling, different story and the eye test really is key there (at least for quicks, less so for spinners as what it takes to succeed with a white ball is often very different to that of a red ball).

 

[Starfighter]

Yeah at least ODI success means you can handle top level bowling

FC success only proves you have test temperament

The thing being forgotten here is that Finch at least, and I think Roy as well, already had a proven lack of success as openers in FC cricket. Therefore that logic, already doubtful, can't apply.

 

[the big bambino]

I think Finch was decent down the order in fc cricket but trash as opener. So naturally he opened in tests.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Roy didn't even open at County Level. Batted middle order for Surrey and his record there was, well, middling (despite the luxury of a very flat home deck).

 

[Pothas]

Roy had pretty much never opened in first class cricket (think he played at 3 a few times) but had an ok record as a middle order player, better than quite a few of the guys England have picked over the last 5 years or so.

 

[mr_mister]

The Warner hunch paid off at least. He's still only played 30 non-test FC matches

 

[Starfighter]

He had scored though, and was averaging 50-odd iirc, though from a small number of matches, some of which were against a Zimbabwe XI.

 

[GotSpin]

Its raining in Sydney if anyone wanted to know

 

[morgieb]

He had scored though, and was averaging 50-odd iirc, though from a small number of matches, some of which were against a Zimbabwe XI.

And his ODI record was actually kind of ordinary. If anything it was his T20 record that got him a look in, though as you said he had dominated the few FC matches he did play which made me more confident. That isn't what I was referring to.

 

[Howe_zat]

Rain radar - https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public...&fcTime=1595818800&zoom=8&lon=-2.25&lat=53.48

Looks like no play before lunch is guaranteed, there might be some play later on but we'll be contending with waiting to dry out the ground and waiting for pitch inspections whenever it stops raining, so who knows.

 

[Flem274*]

pooran has a different bar to clear than roy or finch.

if he can average 30 or more, he's in, because his competitors either can't or barely pass that number.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If somehow 2 or 3 out of Brooks, Hope, Pooran, Hetmeyer, Chase, or Blackwood can kick on to average 38+ they'll stay in games a lot longer and could possibly challenge the likes of Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and the current South African side.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Despite a dysfunctional top 6 they've been pretty even with England over the last 4-5 years.