***Official West Indies in New Zealand***

[Athlai]

I'm getting really irritated by calls on radio and on here to drop Martin becuase he can't bat. Batsmen for batting, bowlers for bowling, or do we want to start picking rubbish bits and pieces players? The batting will never be sorted if we focus on putting the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff by picking good tailend batsmen.

He hasn't been bowling particularly well itbt.

 

[Natman20]

James Franklin this season:

9.2 - 3/22
14 - 1/34
24 - 1/43
23 - 1/75

avg - 29

Ok it seems he has started reasonably well this season and then the batting:

69 (102)
219 (290)

avg - 144. hmmmm.

I still stand by my claim that he hasn't had enough time with the ball to play yet. But maybe the stats prove me wrong.

 

[Athlai]

His batting almost warrants selection to be fair, easily over an Elliot anyway.

 

[Natman20]

I'm getting really irritated by calls on radio and on here to drop Martin becuase he can't bat. Batsmen for batting, bowlers for bowling, or do we want to start picking rubbish bits and pieces players? The batting will never be sorted if we focus on putting the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff by picking good tailend batsmen.

When a test match innings curtails Martin's innings is what I always look forward to. It is the funniest thing to watch to me and that's enough to keep him in the squad. 6 Double Ducks in test matches is quite a feat by anyones standards. Easily the best batsman to watch.

 

[Bahnz]

He hasn't been bowling particularly well itbt.

To be fair, with the exception of the first seven overs at Brisbane, neither has Southee.

 

[Athlai]

To be fair, with the exception of the first seven overs at Brisbane, neither has Southee.

Those 7 overs > anything Martin had done.

 

[Bahnz]

Those 7 overs > anything Martin had done.

Debatable. Martin's opening spell on the 3rd day at Adelaide was really excellent, and he was very unlucky not to get both Clarke and Haddin out.

 

[Athlai]

I'd also debate that Southee only had seven good overs to be fair. He tied down the runs better than Martin did in the second match easily. Looked testing until he tired himself out.

 

[Polo23]

I reckon that 2nd test pitch can be a bit of a write off for all the bowlers. It offered absolutely nothing. I was impressed with the way O'Brien steamed in and bowled really aggressive, and he kept his discipline also. Hitting Lee twice was gold.

I really like O'Brien now...I hope he can perform against the West Indies.

 

[Bahnz]

Another obvious problem with Southee, he does get tired too easily. If you're bringing back James Franklin into the team, a bowler who they'll probably start with a relatively light work load, to ease him back into test cricket, Southee might be a liability.

 

[Athlai]

If you bring Franklin back into the team and possibly Oram then we have
O'Brien (good for 20 overs min a day)
Vettori (good for 20 overs min a day)
Franklin (good for 15 overs min a day)
Southee (good for 15 overs min a day)
Oram (good for 15 overs min a day)

Thats 85 overs bowling at the bare minimum, don't see how there would be any problem with that.

 

[Polo23]

That is really the only problem I see with Southee. He hasn't had the FC experience to get test match fitness into him..though it doesnt help that our batting is so ****e, he only gets a max 1 day rest between bowling innings. Give Southee a pitch that offers pace and bounce, and even if it isn't swinging or seaming, he will still be a handful.

 

[Athlai]

That is really the only problem I see with Southee. He hasn't had the FC experience to get test match fitness into him..though it doesnt help that our batting is so ****e, he only gets a max 1 day rest between bowling innings. Give Southee a pitch that offers pace and bounce, and even if it isn't swinging or seaming, he will still be a handful.

Exactly IMO, if we can just give him any form of favorable condition at all he will really make the West Indians struggle. Martin and O'Brien are both fighters and naggers, and O'Brien just has more fire in him at the moment. This isn't a batting decision it is a bowling one.

 

[Bahnz]

If you bring Franklin back into the team and possibly Oram then we have
O'Brien (good for 20 overs min a day)
Vettori (good for 20 overs min a day)
Franklin (good for 15 overs min a day)
Southee (good for 15 overs min a day)
Oram (good for 15 overs min a day)

Thats 85 overs bowling at the bare minimum, don't see how there would be any problem with that.

That's if we have Oram back. And even if he is, I still think its ridiculous to drop your most seasoned bowler, having done nothing wrong (indeed having done a good deal better than his competition), at a time when it is widely acknowledged that the team is lacking in experience and temperament.

 

[Athlai]

We're dropping him to have our best possible lineup, giving these players experience. Franklin and O'Brien both have a lot of FC experience and this is a home series. Southee has a lot to offer and should be given the opportunity to gain some experience in this series.

 

[Bahnz]

We're dropping him to have our best possible lineup, giving these players experience. Franklin and O'Brien both have a lot of FC experience and this is a home series. Southee has a lot to offer and should be given the opportunity to gain some experience in this series.

Not the same. And I still don't think Southee should be playing for NZ yet. He's clearly not physically up to anything besides short innings, and if gets into more situations like at Adelaide where he has to bowl for two days straight, he could well do himself a nasty injury, a la Cairns. Martin's not going to be around for too much longer. He's 34 after all. He'll probably retire in 2 years absolute max (more likely, I'd imagine, at the end of next season). At that stage Southee will sitll only be 20/21, younger than most bowlers when they enter test cricket, and probably about the right age. For now, Martin still has heaps to offer the team, both as a bowler, and as a mentor to help the younger players cope with the pressures of top level cricket.

And I also think that right now he's a better bowler than Southee. By a distance.

 

[Polo23]

I don't see our bowling lineup lacking experience tbh..atleast, I don't see it as a problem. Vettori is as exerienced as they come, O'Brien has had 10 years of FC cricket, Oram (if he comes back) has had 8 years of FC cricket, Franklin is the same as Oram..so if Martin is dropped I don't see our bowling lacking in experience at all.

It is the batting that is seriously lacking in experience.

 

[Athlai]

Not the same. And I still don't think Southee should be playing for NZ yet. He's clearly not physically up to anything besides short innings, and if gets into more situations like at Adelaide where he has to bowl for two days straight, he could well do himself a nasty injury, a la Cairns. Martin's not going to be around for too much longer. He's 34 after all. He'll probably retire in 2 years absolute max (more likely, I'd imagine, at the end of next season). At that stage Southee will sitll only be 20/21, younger than most bowlers when they enter test cricket, and probably about the right age. For now, Martin still has heaps to offer the team, both as a bowler, and as a mentor to help the younger players cope with the pressures of top level cricket.

And I also think that right now he's a better bowler than Southee. By a distance.

I think Southee has far more wicket taking potential when conditions suit.

I think he should get a Test though I have no problems with Martin being given the other two.

 

[Bahnz]

I don't see our bowling lineup lacking experience tbh..atleast, I don't see it as a problem. Vettori is as exerienced as they come, O'Brien has had 10 years of FC cricket, Oram (if he comes back) has had 8 years of FC cricket, Franklin is the same as Oram..so if Martin is dropped I don't see our bowling lacking in experience at all.

It is the batting that is seriously lacking in experience.

Not referring to just his ability to lead the bowlers. If you take Martin out, no other player besides Vettori has played 40 matches. The batsmen and fielders can benefit just as much from his experience in handling the pressure situations as the bowlers can.

 

[Bahnz]

I think Southee has far more wicket taking potential when conditions suit.

I think he should get a Test though I have no problems with Martin being given the other two.

I see where you're coming from, and you're probably right. But I just shudder at the thought of having only one other player besides Vettori who's played 30 matches (McCullum).