*Official* West Indies in New Zealand - Nov/Dec 2020

[Bahnz]

So no wattling means we see

1.Latham
2.Young
3.Kane
4.Ross
5.Nichols
6.Blundell+
7.Mitchell/CDG (Unsure on fitness)
8.Jamieson
Right?

Colin's out of the squad. Will be one of the Mitchell's playing.

 

[Prince EWS]

Colin's out of the squad. Will be one of the Mitchell's playing.

I was thinking yesterday they might go with five bowlers. Watling being out makes this far less likely though IMO.

 

[Kippax]

In defence of Will Young, has there ever been a home grown NZ domestic batsman with a more complete CV than his (Maybe Sinclair - though I can't remember what his numbers looked like before his debut in 2000)? 5000+ FC runs, average of 44, extended success at A level, has scored hundred against quality international bowlers (albeit in practice matches). Yes, I know Kippax has concerns about how large his pads look against accurate seam and inswing bowling, but overall I think it's really hard to say he doesn't deserve a go. In all likelihood, Taylor and Watling will retire this year, so a couple of spots will open up for the 2 of them in the near term anyway.

You're being sucked in a bit by the very lenient examinations that were afforded to NZ domestic batsmen in the 2012-2019 period and also CD's very docile home venues, I think. Greg Hay has nearly 6000 runs at 43, Tom Bruce has about 3000 at 41, Dane Cleaver also about 3000 at 41.

 

[SteveNZ]

Perhaps, but that's ignoring A success, runs against the Windies (albeit hard to get a gauge on their effort), those back to back tons against Australia (again, albeit in another format) etc. I also get the argument that if one person, Young or Conway, was batting for your life tomorrow you'd potentially side with Conway.

 

[Prince EWS]

Perhaps, but that's ignoring A success, runs against the Windies (albeit hard to get a gauge on their effort), those back to back tons against Australia (again, albeit in another format) etc. I also get the argument that if one person, Young or Conway, was batting for your life tomorrow you'd potentially side with Conway.

Yeah I think some of the anti-Young posting from my fellow Conway worshippers is a bit harsh, but it's probably inevitable when you're comparing two players in this way.

Young's been really unlucky not to debut already (mainly due to badly-timed injuries) and I still genuinely think he's a better batsman than both Nicholls and Blundell, but I'd probably support a push for Conway to establish a global monarchy. These players have a similar chance of failing entirely IMO but Conway's ceiling if he doesn't is astronomical. You could be working with two Kanes instead of one if all the planets aligned. Finding out if you are or not should be #1 priority for sure.

 

[Nintendo]

No CDG for sure, he's out of this test series. It'll either be Darryl Mitchell or Santner. I'd rather prefer Santner. Mitchell just doesn't inspire me. Maybe because I know he's quite a loud mouth for the kind of player he is. Santner may find a way finally to grab couple of wickets or probably just bowl in the right areas for long periods of time. This is the only real gap we have in the team, lacking a good quality test spinner.

I'm not a big fan of santner at 7 against a bowling attack as good as the windies. Can nz get away with 4 pace bowlers+kane for part time spin and just play both of Conway and young maybe?

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm not a big fan of santner at 7 against a bowling attack as good as the windies. Can nz get away with 4 pace bowlers+kane for part time spin and just play both of Conway and young maybe?

Yeah this is an interesting idea. Fifth seamer is probably kind of redundant. If all four specialist quicks are playing, how useful is Mitchell's bowling going to be?

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah I think some of the anti-Young posting from my fellow Conway worshippers is a bit harsh, but it's probably inevitable when you're comparing two players in this way.

Young's been really unlucky not to debut already (mainly due to badly-timed injuries) and I still genuinely think he's a better batsman than both Nicholls and Blundell, but I'd probably support a push for Conway to establish a global monarchy. These players have a similar chance of failing entirely IMO but Conway's ceiling if he doesn't is astronomical. You could be working with two Kanes instead of one if all the planets aligned. Finding out if you are or not should be #1 priority for sure.

Yeah, I'm conflicted. Young deserves a go and as you say, he's been denied it by things outside his control. And I think he's got the ability to be a very good Test player. But now especially after seeing how he handled the first two T20 games, I feel like Conway probably has the ability to be even better. Then you have to weigh up whether you give the opportunity to the incumbent 'in the wings' guy or the guy who's probably done a bit more at FC level and just feels like he might have a higher ceiling. My conservative leanings lead me towards Young but I fully acknowledge that's probably the wrong call.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Yeah this is an interesting idea. Fifth seamer is probably kind of redundant. If all four specialist quicks are playing, how useful is Mitchell's bowling going to be?

I totally agree. It would be nice if Rachin and/or Phillips kick on their 1st class batting and bowling in the next couple of years then play 4 seamers.

 

[nzfan]

You're being sucked in a bit by the very lenient examinations that were afforded to NZ domestic batsmen in the 2012-2019 period and also CD's very docile home venues, I think. Greg Hay has nearly 6000 runs at 43, Tom Bruce has about 3000 at 41, Dane Cleaver also about 3000 at 41.

That's a pretty good point, can't really deny this stat but Young has gone real well at NZ A. Perhaps his NZ A stats are better than his domestic stats.

 

[nzfan]

I'm not a big fan of santner at 7 against a bowling attack as good as the windies. Can nz get away with 4 pace bowlers+kane for part time spin and just play both of Conway and young maybe?

At Seddon park they'll not go without a spinner. Definitely there's going to be something for spinners after the 3rd day. It needs to last the long though.

 

[straw man]

Feel for Watling but his leg injuries are getting more frequent and it's not a bad time to start transitioning Blundell to six or seven, if that's the long term plan.

Now just need one of the bowlers to come down with a head cold so we can get Ferguson in there .

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Now just need one of the bowlers to come down with a head cold.

Might not want to tempt fate for this year.

 

[honestbharani]

Should be named supreme overlord of NZ cricket

In other words, The Misbah.

 

[Bahnz]

That's a pretty good point, can't really deny this stat but Young has gone real well at NZ A. Perhaps his NZ A stats are better than his domestic stats.

There's a couple of aspects to it, I think. Young's NZA record in recent years has been very good. He scored that excellent 100 v India A on a green-top in 2018/19, and hasn't averaged less than 40 in an A series in the past 2 years. The other component was his decision to give up the CD captaincy, which resulted in a significant and enduring uptick in his batting fortunes. Since the start of the NZA tour of the UAE in 2018 (immediately after he gave up the captaincy role) he's scored 1170 runs in all FC cricket at 58.5 (if my math is right - stitching it together from various scoring charts). That's a clear notch above the likes of Hay and Bruce and can't just be put down to CD conditions given the amount of A cricket he's played relative to his Plunket Shield games. It's not Conway good of course, but as elsewhere noted the amount of A cricket he's played does weigh in his favour.

 

[Smudge]

This merch doesn’t look a lot like him

Indeed. The model on that page has more of a front arm than Santner will ever have.

 

[Bahnz]

Btw, the fact that we're even having this conversation is kinda amazing to me. When I think back to those awful post-Fleming, pre-KW years where we must've cycled through close to half a dozen no-hopers at #3, it seems incredible that guys like Conway and Young have essentially no-chance of playing in that position and have to be accomodated elsewhere.

 

[straw man]

Might not want to tempt fate for this year.

Now just need one of the bowlers to come down with a meteor strike so we can get Ferguson in there

 

[Moss]

Mixed feelings about this. Obviously happy that Young will finally get a chance in a test match, but just not a fan of playing people out of position, especially when it's as opener (never mind that Blundell has made a good fist of it so far). Still look back in a mixture of amazement and disgust to the Bracewell-as-coach era when seemingly anyone who could hold a bat was thrust into the opening slot (Marshall/Fulton/Sinclair/Vincent/Fleming). Also hopefully doesn't lead to an identity crisis for Blundell, he's spent the entire season so far as opener in FC.

Anyway as Bahnz said the nature of the conversation has changed quite dramatically since the late 2000s which is something to be satisfied about.

 

[Immenso]

I'm in Team Young. Pleased he will get a chance, obviously love Watling too ....

I got to admit Conway looked to the manor born in the T20Is.