*Official* West Indies in New Zealand - Nov/Dec 2020

[Moss]

Tchah I missed the entire game. Looks like Phillips, Conway and Jaimeson have nailed their chances even if West Indies’ bowling has been below par (to be fair, away tour in odd times etc). Good stuff, hope they put pressure on the incumbents in both white ball sides.

 

[honestbharani]

if he can sustain that pace across test spells from that height and swing...

When you change your pace, up or down, you often lose some of the swing you get at your natural pace. But if he can bowl 140+ and get the same swing he got against India, WOW!!!

 

[Beamer]

So a long nights sleep hasn't made that fielding performance any more palatable....

So I'm going to praise Philips and Conway instead, who were undeniably brilliant.

But there is no way I'm waking up early tomorrow to watch the steaming pile of misery that is our bowling lineup.

 

[Beamer]

West Indies absolutely need guys like Naraine, Andre Russell, both the Bravos at the least when they tour. With those in the lineup they can compete. I honestly over rated this WI side and under rated black caps. Maybe we haven't seen the best of WI yet but with the kind of players they have at their disposal but aren't playing must be frustrating for their supporters.

This middle lower order is absolutely insane, just unmatched power at our disposal. When we have Lewis, Simmons, Russell, Narine it obviously gets even better but the side playing here is still a very dangerous batting side.

Unfortunately, it's no use having a batting lineup like that if they will have to chase 240 because the bowling is so inept.

That is where Bravo, Russell and Narine will make a big difference. I can't help but think Jason Holder would help also. I don't care about T20 experience anymore, just bring in people who can bowl please, I can't take much more of this.

 

[Beamer]

In better news, we have announced the A team to play NZ A over a couple of 4 days. Main headline is that Pooran will play, which is really exciting.

Fabian Allen, Nkrumah Bonner, Joshua Silva, Brandon King,Kyle Mayers, Preston McSween, Shayne Moseley, Nicholas Pooran, Rovman Powell, Raymond Reifer, Jayden Seales, Romario Shepherd, Oshane Thomas, Hayden Walsh Jr

So a likely XI would be:

Shayne Mosely
Joshua Da Silva (wk)
Brandon King
Nicholas Pooran
Nkrumah Bonner
Kyle Mayers
Raymon Reifer
Romario Shepherd
Preston McSween
Hayden Walsh Jr
Oshane Thomas/Jayden Seales

Those are actually two very important matches for many of the white ball crew who have not played much red ball cricket recently. They all have a chance to make statements, particularly Pooran and King.

 

[Bahnz]

Hope they're playing the A games on pitches that have a bit more life in them than they 2 warm-up games. 18 wickets over 4 days is a bit of an embarassment for the groundstaff.

 

[Beamer]

Hope they're playing the A games on pitches that have a bit more life in them than they 2 warm-up games. 18 wickets over 4 days is a bit of an embarassment for the groundstaff.

Agreed but I'm not complaining as it gave our batsman some much needed confidence!

 

[thundaboult]

Really pleased with the way our guys have come out this season. Ferguson, Phillips, Conway and Neesham have been so exciting to watch. I'm gonna sound like a broken record but the bitter taste of Southee still being around in colored clothing seems to be a never-ending problem and any critisicm of him falls on deaf ears. Furthermore he's made a captain. His presence in the bowling line-up is deterimental to so many others who are knocking the door down. This southee problem has been around for 4 or 5 years now and idk what it will take for NZC to put him out of his misery in the LOI's. I really hope someone does a yuvraj-broad on him before the T20 WC's happen or we will pay the ultimate price of taking this dude to those tourneys.

Among frontline bowlers (excluding all rounders) with 150 or more odi wickets his average of 34.51 is the worst of any bowler till date, also among the 29 bowlers from top 8 teams with 50 or more T20I wickets his average of 27.30 is again the worst while his economy rate of 8.50 is the 2nd worst. Last summer in the 10 T20IS against England and India he picked up 7 wickets at an average of 48.42, economy rate of 9.16 and also conceded 15 - 20 runs in the three super overs he bowled and unsurprisingly Nz lost all those matches , Anderson, Broad and Ashwin all have much better Odi and T20I numbers than him yet they only play test cricket but here in Nz this guy is still playing white ball cricket that too as captain.

 

[nzfan]

The next WI A game is at the same venue as the last night's T20. Generally regarded as a flat wicket with assistance to spin. Nelson can have some assistance for bowlers.

By the time the 11th Dec game comes up we also have Pakistan A scheduled to play at the same time. This means either Pakistan or WI won't get as strong a A team we have fielded so far unless covid has spread to lot more than 6 of Pakistan players and aren't able to take the field. Hope they release Sears and Ravindra to Firebirds pronto that they've played the WI. Firebirds needs them desperately for ford trophy

 

[nzfan]

Really pleased with the way our guys have come out this season. Ferguson, Phillips, Conway and Neesham have been so exciting to watch. I'm gonna sound like a broken record but the bitter taste of Southee still being around in colored clothing seems to be a never-ending problem and any critisicm of him falls on deaf ears. Furthermore he's made a captain. His presence in the bowling line-up is deterimental to so many others who are knocking the door down. This southee problem has been around for 4 or 5 years now and idk what it will take for NZC to put him out of his misery in the LOI's. I really hope someone does a yuvraj-broad on him before the T20 WC's happen or we will pay the ultimate price of taking this dude to those tourneys.

Among frontline bowlers (excluding all rounders) with 150 or more odi wickets his average of 34.51 is the worst of any bowler till date, also among the 29 bowlers from top 8 teams with 50 or more T20I wickets his average of 27.30 is again the worst while his economy rate of 8.50 is the 2nd worst. Last summer in the 10 T20IS against England and India he picked up 7 wickets at an average of 48.42, economy rate of 9.16 and also conceded 15 - 20 runs in the three super overs he bowled and unsurprisingly Nz lost all those matches , Anderson, Broad and Ashwin all have much better Odi and T20I numbers than him yet they only play test cricket but here in Nz this guy is still playing white ball cricket that too as captain.

He's going nowhere mate, he's here to stay likely for the next 3-5 years. Just get used to it. He will play all formats as well

 

[nzfan]

I do think WI will adopt to test cricket better this season. Their bowlers have had very good hit out and so have their batters for the long format. They've been in the country for quite some time and will have acclimatized better. Particularly at Seddon Park and probably not so much at Basin Reserve. They have a reasonable shot at Seddon Park with majority of our test cricketers either playing T20s or out of action unlike the WI test cricketers.

 

[SteveNZ]

Really pleased with the way our guys have come out this season. Ferguson, Phillips, Conway and Neesham have been so exciting to watch. I'm gonna sound like a broken record but the bitter taste of Southee still being around in colored clothing seems to be a never-ending problem and any critisicm of him falls on deaf ears. Furthermore he's made a captain. His presence in the bowling line-up is deterimental to so many others who are knocking the door down. This southee problem has been around for 4 or 5 years now and idk what it will take for NZC to put him out of his misery in the LOI's. I really hope someone does a yuvraj-broad on him before the T20 WC's happen or we will pay the ultimate price of taking this dude to those tourneys.

Among frontline bowlers (excluding all rounders) with 150 or more odi wickets his average of 34.51 is the worst of any bowler till date, also among the 29 bowlers from top 8 teams with 50 or more T20I wickets his average of 27.30 is again the worst while his economy rate of 8.50 is the 2nd worst. Last summer in the 10 T20IS against England and India he picked up 7 wickets at an average of 48.42, economy rate of 9.16 and also conceded 15 - 20 runs in the three super overs he bowled and unsurprisingly Nz lost all those matches , Anderson, Broad and Ashwin all have much better Odi and T20I numbers than him yet they only play test cricket but here in Nz this guy is still playing white ball cricket that too as captain.

It's a fair point, and worth remembering he's not in the ODI XI (when you look at his ODI record, it's actually horrible - has only averaged less than30 in two years - 2008 and 2011. But who do you play instead of him in T20? Trent if he plays you'd think comes in for Southee, Jamieson/Ferguson can't be dropped. There's really not a lot of other options that stick out. Bennett is far more hittable, not a big Kuggleijn fan, then guys like Milne can't stay on the park etc.

 

[Immenso]

I do think WI will adopt to test cricket better this season. Their bowlers have had very good hit out and so have their batters for the long format. They've been in the country for quite some time and will have acclimatized better. Particularly at Seddon Park and probably not so much at Basin Reserve. They have a reasonable shot at Seddon Park with majority of our test cricketers either playing T20s or out of action unlike the WI test cricketers.

I'm a little nervous at how good a preperation our oppoenents will get for the tests this year (both Windies and Pak). It's very un-2010s.

Should be: rock up, no prep, 2 tests, get thrashed, start to acclimatise half way through the second thrashing, too late, go home.

 

[Moss]

It's a fair point, and worth remembering he's not in the ODI XI (when you look at his ODI record, it's actually horrible - has only averaged less than30 in two years - 2008 and 2011. But who do you play instead of him in T20? Trent if he plays you'd think comes in for Southee, Jamieson/Ferguson can't be dropped. There's really not a lot of other options that stick out. Bennett is far more hittable, not a big Kuggleijn fan, then guys like Milne can't stay on the park etc.

Boult, Ferguson and Jaimeson are probably the top 3 pacers in T20 now (Henry joins them for ODIs). Perhaps time for someone like Duffy, surely he'll come into consideration for white ball sides in the next couple of years. Kuggs is obviously in the frame too though the jury is out (no wordplay intended ).While Bennett's comeback has likely run its course, maybe Milne could be brought back if his BBL stint goes well? Then there are others like Rance and Bracewell who don't get much fanfare around here but would still do a better job than Southee you would think.

FWIW they did finally make the call to drop Southee from the ODI XI at the World Cup (paid off handsomely in the semifinal) as well as for the Sydney test (weirdly) so I do have hope they'll do the same for T20s (eventually).

 

[Flem274*]

bennett was worth a go but it's time for a look at duffy. tickner is a much better limited overs than fc bowler as well but he'd be awful in india.

 

[nzfan]

I'm a little nervous at how good a preperation our oppoenents will get for the tests this year (both Windies and Pak). It's very un-2010s.

Should be: rock up, no prep, 2 tests, get thrashed, start to acclimatise half way through the second thrashing, too late, go home.

Or send some clubbies or fringe players to play a token warm up match like we used to do or they do in Aussie ie the chairman xi or something like that. We have fronted up some of our better players, both with the bat and ball. By the time they start the test match they will have figured the lengths to bowl, the batters would have found their timing.

 

[SteveNZ]

Boult, Ferguson and Jaimeson are probably the top 3 pacers in T20 now (Henry joins them for ODIs). Perhaps time for someone like Duffy, surely he'll come into consideration for white ball sides in the next couple of years. Kuggs is obviously in the frame too though the jury is out (no wordplay intended ).While Bennett's comeback has likely run its course, maybe Milne could be brought back if his BBL stint goes well? Then there are others like Rance and Bracewell who don't get much fanfare around here but would still do a better job than Southee you would think.

FWIW they did finally make the call to drop Southee from the ODI XI at the World Cup (paid off handsomely in the semifinal) as well as for the Sydney test (weirdly) so I do have hope they'll do the same for T20s (eventually).

Yep, those guys are 100% the top three. The issue lies in the 5th pace bowler. Neesham just isn't it - I rate him as a hitter and it was nice to see him finally ice a game the other day. But his bowling just isn't something that can be relied on, especially in T20 and at the death. He's so hittable. Sodhi in the right conditions works, but when he's not picked the 5th bowling option is an issue. CdG isn't it in T20 either.

Incidentally that decision to drop Southee was one of the most disgraceful in recent memory.

 

[Flem274*]

i didn't mind dropping southee for sydney. he was awful at melbourne. cdg was almost bowling faster and hitting the deck with more venom, and posing a greater threat. he was so bad.

and we all know a good dropping means southee comes charging back like he did against india. even bowled well in an odi while sick as a dog. the guy thrives on adversity.

Or send some clubbies or fringe players to play a token warm up match like we used to do or they do in Aussie ie the chairman xi or something like that. We have fronted up some of our better players, both with the bat and ball. By the time they start the test match they will have figured the lengths to bowl, the batters would have found their timing.

oh come on, we should only pull these stunts for big 3 scum.

 

[thierry henry]

i love how obnoxious our young players are. maybe they wont cower in fear everytime we cross the tasman.

Phillips is like this unholy amalgam of Smith and Warner. Warner's nugget build, a combination of Smith's pig face and Warner's dog face, Warner's celebrations and showboating, Warner's hyperactive fielding, Smith's general on-the-spectrum personality, and most importantly, basically Smith's whole batting technique.

I feel like I am going to be happily saying unintentionally mean-sounding things about this dork for years to come.

 

[Immenso]

Or send some clubbies or fringe players to play a token warm up match like we used to do or they do in Aussie ie the chairman xi or something like that. We have fronted up some of our better players, both with the bat and ball. By the time they start the test match they will have figured the lengths to bowl, the batters would have found their timing.

Yeah, I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

Love having the 'A' team play. Like having tourists properly prepared for a change. But it could hurt us. But its a price I'm prepared to pay.