***Official*** West Indies in Australia

[Slats4ever]

I've got to say I have listened to some of worst most biased commentry ever in this match however Mark Taylor takes the biscuit with Symonds shout against Lara in the 1st innings "plumb LBW" despite the fcat that replays couldn't determine if it pitched outside leg stump or not and hawkeye indicated it was missing. He then uses hawkeye to back up a decision later in the day - Pathetic.

tbh i agree completely with you. I was thinking about exactly the same thing when i saw it.

 

[Peter Henderson]

Ian Healy runs him close though with the line that the Windies can't expect many 50/50 decisions when there bowling because they don't appael loud enough . .

You're either very naive or you don't watch much cricket if you don't realise that Healy is actually spot on with that comment.

Rightly or wrongly, the vociferousness of the appeal and the number of fielders engaging in it (as well as the crowd) plays a definate role.

I've always found the West Indies to recieve the least decisions in their favour when they bowl because of their laid back attitude and often passive nature.

 

[Peter Henderson]

For instance, I was hearing from Hussein on Sky Sports that one of the factors that Fletcher likes Jones behind the stumps in preference to Reid, aside from the batting was the differing styles between the two of appealing for wickets.

Basically admitting to the fact that it's a seen as a negative on Reid that he doesn't appeal convincingly for everything, regardless of whether he genuinely thinks it's out or not.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The Windies should be able to trust that an appeal should suffice though, and their decision weighed up on its merits. I can understand that a more forceful appeal (like the Aussies have been doing)might be able to force a bad decision, but the Windies at times haven't been able to get decisions for them when they've been bowling and appealed (e.g. Bravo to Warne)

Otherwise, it's as though you need to intimidate the umpire into giving an LBW

 

[Top_Cat]

The Windies should be able to trust that an appeal should suffice though, and their decision weighed up on its merits. I can understand that a more forceful appeal (like the Aussies have been doing)might be able to force a bad decision, but the Windies at times haven't been able to get decisions for them when they've been bowling and appealed (e.g. Bravo to Warne)

Otherwise, it's as though you need to intimidate the umpire into giving an LBW

Yeah but like it or not, the loudness of an appeal is a legitimate tactic. Certainly every captain I've played under has mentioned it saying stuff like "Okay, when an appeal happens, I want to see everyone up even if you're side-on and have no idea whether it was out or not". I never subscribed to it myself (just can't fake an appeal) but certainly it's pretty well-known. The condition it has created, though, is that umpires expect it from fielding teams now and if you don't run around and scream, they think you reckon it wasn't out and will take that into account in a decision. And we can say until we're blue in the face that umpires should be objective, etc. but in the heat of battle, it's difficult to remember. Umpires are, if nothing else, human.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The condition it has created, though, is that umpires expect it from fielding teams now and if you don't run around and scream, they think you reckon it wasn't out and will take that into account in a decision.

Exactly. That's the dilemma that the good appealing sides have "created" for umpires.

Even in the side I'm playing for, for the first five games we were on the receiving end of a lot of bad decisions. Since we've upped the ante on our appealing a bit (not me, though. I must admit to being a terrible appealer [except off my own bowling ] ) we've started getting LBW shouts going our way and started to win a few games - creating a bit of momentum.

 

[chalky]

The Windies should be able to trust that an appeal should suffice though, and their decision weighed up on its merits. I can understand that a more forceful appeal (like the Aussies have been doing)might be able to force a bad decision, but the Windies at times haven't been able to get decisions for them when they've been bowling and appealed (e.g. Bravo to Warne)

Otherwise, it's as though you need to intimidate the umpire into giving an LBW

I couldn't agree more the decision should be made on weather the batsmen is out or not, and not how aggresive the appeal is. If an umpire is making decisions on the strengh of an appeal they really shouldn't be umpiring at test match level. .

 

[Mike Hussey]

Australia are 2/95.
Hayden - 45*
Hodge - 17*

 

[Top_Cat]

Exactly. That's the dilemma that the good appealing sides have "created" for umpires.

Even in the side I'm playing for, for the first five games we were on the receiving end of a lot of bad decisions. Since we've upped the ante on our appealing a bit (not me, though. I must admit to being a terrible appealer [except off my own bowling ] ) we've started getting LBW shouts going our way and started to win a few games - creating a bit of momentum.

Funny that. It's not brain surgery; umpires do take their cues from the fielding side and it's often not deliberate; it's human nature. If there are 11 guys screaming their heads off at you, it's hard not to be intimidated by that. Most of the time you can see past it but sometimes, an umpire will fall for it. That's why it's such a good tactic.

I couldn't agree more the decision should be made on weather the batsmen is out or not, and not how aggresive the appeal is. If an umpire is making decisions on the strengh of an appeal they really shouldn't be umpiring at test match level. .

They are not robots. By your criteria, there wouldn't be any umpires at all. Maybe that's what's needed to shut up the home-town fans.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Well, Billy is telling the Windies to quieten down. I can not believe it.

 

[Top_Cat]

They're talking whilst the bowler is running in; perfectly legitimate reason to tell them to keep quiet.

 

[Peter Henderson]

I couldn't agree more the decision should be made on weather the batsmen is out or not, and not how aggresive the appeal is. If an umpire is making decisions on the strengh of an appeal they really shouldn't be umpiring at test match level. .

Obviously I'm sure everyone agree's that's how it SHOULD be in an ideal world.

 

[Jono]

Well that bat-pad appeal off Hussey is an example of poor WI appealing really. As Ian Chappell described it, "A polite enquiry" which, judging by the replays, was probably out.

 

[Top_Cat]

There you go; had the WI gone up a bit louder there, they might have gotten that one. As it was, I thought there was plenty of glove in it and the only reason I can think of for why they DIDN'T scream the house down was because they're about to be 3-0 down in the series. They didn't even react when the decision went against them!

 

[age_master]

if the players arn't confident why should the umipres be?

 

[aussie]

well its just about a formality now, but i must commend the West Indies on their effort this morning. They have really showed a lot of fight in the latter half-of this series..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

if the players arn't confident why should the umipres be?

Because umpires are supposed to be neutral and make their decisions based on the play rather than the appeal? Umpires aren't supposed to take their cues from the players. If that was the case, then almost every genuine appeal would be given out.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Because umpires are supposed to be neutral and make their decisions based on the play rather than the appeal? Umpires aren't supposed to take their cues from the players. If that was the case, then almost every genuine appeal would be given out.

*bells and whistles*

We have a winner!!

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Because umpires are supposed to be neutral and make their decisions based on the play rather than the appeal? Umpires aren't supposed to take their cues from the players. If that was the case, then almost every genuine appeal would be given out.

So you are saying an umpire shout be equally as likely to give a half shout out than a full blown appeal?

 

[vic_orthdox]

So you are saying an umpire shout be equally as likely to give a half shout out than a full blown appeal?

If it's out, then yes.

I've seen plenty of times where Warne has been the only guy go up whole heartedly, and no-one else appeals at all, and he gets a wicket.