**Official** Sri Lanka in England / Scotland - 2011

[Teja.]

Haha, The overconfidence is amusing tstl. Will be a fun series, won't India in England.

 

[Jacknife]

just thought that those figure gave quite an accurate reflection of their respective bowling abilities.

btw-
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Included only the top batting line-ups. (nz, pak, wi have relatively poor line-ups)

Top 3 bowlers from each side-

Steyn - avg 23, sr 43
Morkel - avg 30, sr 57
Harris - avg 40, sr 88, econ 2.76

Anderson - avg 32, sr 61
Broad - avg 36, sr 70
Swann- avg 36, sr 70

Zaheer - avg 28, sr 49
Harbi- avg 38, sr 75
Ohja - avg 43, sr 89

Siddle - avg 27, sr 54
Johnson- avg 31, sr 54
Hilfy- avg 39, sr 78

Why do that though, in the last 2 years England have only played The Ashes home and away and SA away, whereas someone like Steyn for example has played 9 out of the 12 you've listed at home.

 

[Jacknife]

Haha, The overconfidence is amusing tstl. Will be a fun series, won't India in England.

From who exactly?

 

[centurymaker]

Why do that though, in the last 2 years England have only played The Ashes home and away and SA away, whereas someone like Steyn for example has played 9 out of the 12 you've listed at home.

Do you want me to include stats from 2008? Swann had only just started then.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

It just makes it worse for england tbh.

 

[Teja.]

From who exactly?

Considering Sharma-Sree-Harby is on par with Bangladesh is overconfidence IMO. Twas partly in jest anyway.

I do get the feeling the Indian bowling is being seriously underrated based on the psychological impact of the first test in SA though.

 

[Spark]

Do you want me to include stats from 2008? Swann had only just started then.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

It just makes it worse for england tbh.

Ick, such dodgy stat manipulation going on here, cutting and changing and omitting. Whilst I don't disagree that Steyn/Morkel > Anderson/Swann as a pair, the gap isn't big and the bowlers beyond that are dramatically superior for England.

 

[centurymaker]

Ick, such dodgy stat manipulation going on here, cutting and changing and omitting. Whilst I don't disagree that Steyn/Morkel > Anderson/Swann as a pair, the gap isn't big and the bowlers beyond that are dramatically superior for England.

I only exculded games against west indies, pak, nz and bang because their batting line-ups are no way near the top 5's.

Edit- here-
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

I removed the 35 wicket cut-off and included all bowlers.

 

[Spark]

Yeah but the thing is when you do that the statistics become seriously distorted because the sample size becomes way too small to be accurate.

I mean I'm almost certain that's Swann figures are badly inflated by the fact he played 5 tests down here, and 1. visiting offies never do well here, ever 2. he was basically surplus to requirements apart from one situation where the pitch was turning, and he delivered there.

And why are you including 2008? Not relevant, if we're talking 2008 then we would still talking about Matthew Hayden cleaning up, Ricky Ponting easily on course to be the greatest run scorer of all time and the like.

Including 2009, it becomes what I expected - all of Anderson, Broad and Swann's Tests in that metric are against us or against SA and most of them are away. Nah, sorry, can't take that seriously at all.

 

[vcs]

Why did Anderson not do well in SA? You'd think he'd love the conditions there. I mean, he didn't do that badly, averaged 34, but you'd expect him to have averaged sub-30 in those conditions.

 

[centurymaker]

Yeah but the thing is when you do that the statistics become seriously distorted because the sample size becomes way too small to be accurate.

I mean I'm almost certain that's Swann figures are badly inflated by the fact he played 5 tests down here, and 1. visiting offies never do well here, ever 2. he was basically surplus to requirements apart from one situation where the pitch was turning, and he delivered there.

tbf Harris, Harbi toured aus too in that time period, 3 and 4 tests respectively.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...rderby=default;template=results;type=allround

Take a look at his country by country record.

 

[Spark]

This was pre-2010 Anderson, who went AWOL every now and then. He became basically useless after the 3rd Ashes Test. I suspect something similar happened in a few of those Tests (the first and last in particular)

 

[centurymaker]

Including 2009, it becomes what I expected - all of Anderson, Broad and Swann's Tests in that metric are against us or against SA and most of them are away. Nah, sorry, can't take that seriously at all.

Well we'll have to wait till the end of the english summer then. 3 tests against SL, and 4 tests against india.

 

[social]

Unless SL unearth some bowling talent quickly, I despair for their chances in the next few years

Mendis aside, that's a pretty average fc lineup and it's laughable to think that an ordinary trundler like Fernando is seen by some as a saviour

 

[Spark]

tbf Harris, Harbi toured aus too in that time period, 3 and 4 tests respectively.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Take a look at his country by country record.

So? 2008 is not relevant, IMO, to a Test taking place today. All the players have changed too much. Swann's two poor series come in India in 2008 (and it's India!) and in Australia where averaging 40 is about the expectation for a visiting offspinner.

In the end this kind of stat manipulation goes nowhere. Having watched most of Anderson/Swann/Broad/Tremlett's bowling at Test level in the last year and much of SA/India's attack, I'm pretty confident in my assessment that the England attack is not far off world-leading.

 

[centurymaker]

So? 2008 is not relevant, IMO, to a Test taking place today. All the players have changed too much. Swann's two poor series come in India in 2008 (and it's India!) and in Australia where averaging 40 is about the expectation for a visiting offspinner.

In the end this kind of stat manipulation goes nowhere. Having watched most of Anderson/Swann/Broad/Tremlett's bowling at Test level in the last year and much of SA/India's attack, I'm pretty confident in my assessment that the England attack is not far off world-leading.

Actually I never said it wasn't. I rated it only slightly behind SA's attack.

Here you go-

bowling attack ratings-

1. SA 9/10
2. Eng 8.5/10
3. Aus 7/10
4. Ind 6.5/10 (without zaheer it's 5/10)
5. Pak 6/10
6. NZ 5.5/10
7. WI 4/10
8. SL 3.5/10 (the current one)
9. Bang 3/10

IMO

 

[Spark]

Ah, my apologies then.

Not really sure what this discussion is about in that case.

 

[social]

So? 2008 is not relevant, IMO, to a Test taking place today. All the players have changed too much. Swann's two poor series come in India in 2008 (and it's India!) and in Australia where averaging 40 is about the expectation for a visiting offspinner.

In the end this kind of stat manipulation goes nowhere. Having watched most of Anderson/Swann/Broad/Tremlett's bowling at Test level in the last year and much of SA/India's attack, I'm pretty confident in my assessment that the England attack is not far off world-leading.

Eng probably have the best attack in the world at present

Having said that, there is virtually no competition as bowling stocks are at an horrendously low ebb

 

[vcs]

England have better depth and variety in their attack, but SA's attack is the more accomplished (and lethal) and proven for longer and in a wider variety of conditions IMO. TBF, most of that is down to Steyn being the best bowler in the world comfortably right now.

 

[Borges]

England have better depth and variety in their attack, but SA's attack is the more accomplished (and lethal) and proven for longer and in a wider variety of conditions IMO. TBF, most of that is down to Steyn being the best bowler in the world comfortably right now.

+1.

With Bond having called it a day, Steyn has become absolutely peerless. With the addition of Tahir, SA now have an attack which is the most potent on all surfaces - at home, in England, In India.

England is probably just breathing down SA's neck on surfaces which suit their brand of bowling, and trailing way behind, out of sighting distance, on surfaces that don't.

 

[Spark]

I can't see how one can fairly judge Tahir before he's even played a Test.