***Official*** Spot-Fixing Scandal

[Shri]

you sneaky bastard.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Xuhaib]

Imran Khan on his first tour was asked to tie the shoe laces and make coffee for the seniors

yeah its very common during the summer tour to England Umer Amin was asked to do Shoaib Malik's laundry while Azhar Ali had the task of carrying Mo Yo's kit bags.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I pity the guy who had to do Akhtar's laundry.

Wouldn't Amin have dropped Shoaib's laundry down the laundry chute anyway? Surely they are paid well enough nowadays to not be as stingy as doing their own laundry?

 

[Xuhaib]

Imran Khan on his first tour was asked to tie the shoe laces and make coffee for the seniors

that also reminds me of my first internship replace doing shoe laces with photo copying.

 

[Xuhaib]

I pity the guy who had to do Akhtar's laundry.

Wouldn't Amin have dropped Shoaib's laundry down the laundry chute anyway? Surely they are paid well enough nowadays to not be as stingy as doing their own laundry?

yeah as i said its a team culture thing this is some ****** way of a youngster paying his dues.

 

[smash84]

yeah as i said its a team culture thing this is some ****** way of a youngster paying his dues.

I am not sure Imran treated the juniors in the team like that. This can't have continued since.

 

[bagapath]

this is the bad side of asian culture you see, which could have been handed down from the colonial era actually. john wright, when he took over as india's national coach, was supposed to have been shocked to see indian cricketers walking to the first net session leaving their bags in the team bus expecting someone from the club to bring them over. wright sent the players back to fetch the bags themselves. i can imagine the senior - junior culture in full swing in most of these teams very much like the professional - amateur division in the pre - len hutton era england dressing room.

 

[Debris]

this is the bad side of asian culture you see, which could have been handed down from the colonial era actually. john wright, when he took over as india's national coach, was supposed to have been shocked to see indian cricketers walking to the first net session leaving their bags in the team bus expecting someone from the club to bring them over. wright sent the players back to fetch the bags themselves. i can imagine the senior - junior culture in full swing in most of these teams very much like the professional - amateur division in the pre - len hutton era england dressing room.

Blaming something that happened 70 years ago in England is just making bad excuses for arrogant behaviour. These are intelligent (presumably) adult cricketers and they should be able to work out what is acceptable. Not even English cricketers do it anymore, ffs.

I suspect it is more to do with fame and an undeserved sense of entitlement.

 

[bagapath]

Blaming something that happened 70 years ago in England is just making bad excuses for arrogant behaviour. These are intelligent (presumably) adult cricketers and they should be able to work out what is acceptable. Not even English cricketers do it anymore, ffs.

I suspect it is more to do with fame and an undeserved sense of entitlement.

we are talking about what happened in pakistan 40 years ago. so what happened in england 20 years before that is not irrelevant. and even the english cricketers were intelligent and adult. still there were obvious class differences. there were different dressing rooms and different entries to the grounds for professionals and amateurs, do you know?arrogance is not any one particular country's special trait you see.

dude... the english taught cricket to asians... am sure the bad habits were also passed on... i think human beings of all races are capable of extreme cruelty to others... so this is not a racist statement, let me clarify... it was not difficult for the colonial era indians (which includes present day pakistanis and bangladeshis) to assume a servile attitude towards the ruling brits... the flip side is that a servile person can also become bossy when the opportunity presents itself and that is what happened in this very english of games for many following decades...

 

[Xuhaib]

I am not sure Imran treated the juniors in the team like that. This can't have continued since.

Imran was also someone who pushed/bullied the juniors however as soon he saw a young player with potential he would quickly turn himself in to a mentor to that player.

 

[Debris]

we are talking about what happened in pakistan 40 years ago. so what happened in england 20 years before that is not irrelevant. and even the english cricketers were intelligent and adult. still there were obvious class differences. there were different dressing rooms and different entries to the grounds for professionals and amateurs, do you know?arrogance is not any one particular country's special trait you see.

dude... the english taught cricket to asians... am sure the bad habits were also passed on... i think human beings of all races are capable of extreme cruelty to others... so this is not a racist statement, let me clarify... it was not difficult for the colonial era indians (which includes present day pakistanis and bangladeshis) to assume a servile attitude towards the ruling brits... the flip side is that a servile person can also become bossy when the opportunity presents itself and that is what happened in this very english of games for many following decades...

Meh, still think it is just making excuses. Even 40 years ago, they knew it was not right and noone was forcing them to do it And, obviously, the John Wright thing did not happen 40 years ago. It just sounds like you are trying to pass all the blame off to the English. This is not to say that the English behaviour was not equally bad but there has to be some personal/national responsibility.

 

[bagapath]

Meh, still think it is just making excuses. Even 40 years ago, they knew it was not right and noone was forcing them to do it

are you talking about the professional - amateur division? oh, no dude. you are way off the mark. there are countless stories about disgruntled professionals treated like **** just because they were paid to play the game. and for a little more on colonial mindset and the game of cricket C.L.R. James is a must read.

And, obviously, the John Wright thing did not happen 40 years ago. It just sounds like you are trying to pass all the blame off to the English. This is not to say that the English behaviour was not equally bad but there has to be some personal/national responsibility.

no, it is not national/personal. it is human. there is no difference between the english and indians in terms of chromosomes. so they all belong to one race. just that one taught the other one certain things. no passing off blames here.

englishman said to the indian:
"hold your bat like this. that is where you keep your left foot. whack the ball if it pitches there; defend it if it pitches here. got it? now carry my bags back to the coach."

the same dialogue gets repeated decades later. this time from an asian to another.

and by the same logic, a new zealander, john wright, taught them to do the right thing and hopefully that culture will be passed on to the future generations. the world is getting more and more egalitarian. we are centuries away from true equality but it is still getting better than before.

 

[smash84]

the world is getting more and more egalitarian. we are centuries away from true equality but it is till getting better than before.

according to our yardsticks.........I am sure that the people from those olden times would be shocked by our standards of judging societies

 

[Debris]

are you talking about the professional - amateur division? oh, no dude. you are way off the mark. there are countless stories about disgruntled professionals treated like **** just because they were paid to play the game. and for a little more on colonial mindset and the game of cricket C.L.R. James is a must read.




no, it is not national/personal. it is human. there is no difference between the english and indians in terms of chromosomes. so they all belong to one race. just that one taught the other one certain things. no passing off blames here.

englishman said to the indian:
"hold your bat like this. that is where you keep your left foot. whack the ball if it pitches there; defend it if it pitches here. got it? now carry my bags back to the coach."

the same dialogue gets repeated decades later. this time from an asian to another.

and by the same logic, a new zealander, john wright, taught them to do the right thing and hopefully that culture will be passed on to the future generations. the world is getting more and more egalitarian. we are centuries away from true equality but it is still getting better than before.

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying it was OK for English and asian cricketers to behave in this way because it was how it was always done and they could not tell the difference between right and wrong until someone pointed it out to them?

 

[bagapath]

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying it was OK for English and asian cricketers to behave in this way because it was how it was always done and they could not tell the difference between right and wrong until someone pointed it out to them?

i am saying

1. the english behaved in a high handed manner to fellow englishmen. the amateurs treated the professionals badly.
2. when the game was brought over to the subcontinent the english treated the locals in a highhanded manner the same way amateurs treated the professionals.
3. after the englishmen left, the locals treated other locals in a highhanded manner and continued the tradition.
4. the english fixed their system on their own.
5. a new zealander came to india and told them to change their ways.

I never said it is okay to treat others in a high handed manner simply because a person cannot tell the difference between good and bad. since you want to know, let me tell you clearly that i think it is not right. ok?

all that i am saying is that the game of cricket has always had to deal with the class system. the root cause lies in the way the game has developed and spread over the centuries. it comes from the tradition of treating the poorer, less powerful team member like ****. even in a comedy like "the chronicles of slyme court" the baron treats his butler very badly, especially after the butler yorks him in a game of cricket. therefore, it is no surprise that the colonists looked at the natives with disdain. when they left, the natives found poorer cousins to look down upon equally disdainfully.

 

[smash84]

i am saying

1. the english behaved in a high handed manner to fellow englishmen. the amateurs treated the professionals badly.
2. when the game was brought over to the subcontinent the english treated the locals in a highhanded manner the same way amateurs treated the professionals.
3. after the englishmen left, the locals treated other locals in a highhanded manner and continued the tradition.
4. the english fixed their system on their own.
5. a new zealander came to india and told them to change their ways.

I never said it is okay to treat others in a high handed manner simply because a person cannot tell the difference between good and bad. since you want to know, let me tell you clearly that i think it is not right. ok?

all that i am saying is that the game of cricket has always had to deal with the class system. the root cause lies in the way the game has developed and spread over the centuries. it comes from the tradition of treating the poorer, less powerful team member like ****. even in a comedy like the "chronicles of slyme court" the baron treats his butler very badly, especially after the butler yorks him in a game of cricket. it is no suprise that the colonists looked at the natives with disdain. when they left, the natives found poorer cousins to look down upon equally disdainfully.

interesting observation

 

[Faisal1985]

i am saying

1. the english behaved in a high handed manner to fellow englishmen. the amateurs treated the professionals badly.
2. when the game was brought over to the subcontinent the english treated the locals in a highhanded manner the same way amateurs treated the professionals.
3. after the englishmen left, the locals treated other locals in a highhanded manner and continued the tradition.
4. the english fixed their system on their own.
5. a new zealander came to india and told them to change their ways.

I never said it is okay to treat others in a high handed manner simply because a person cannot tell the difference between good and bad. since you want to know, let me tell you clearly that i think it is not right. ok?

all that i am saying is that the game of cricket has always had to deal with the class system. the root cause lies in the way the game has developed and spread over the centuries. it comes from the tradition of treating the poorer, less powerful team member like ****. even in a comedy like "the chronicles of slyme court" the baron treats his butler very badly, especially after the butler yorks him in a game of cricket. therefore, it is no surprise that the colonists looked at the natives with disdain. when they left, the natives found poorer cousins to look down upon equally disdainfully.

Or you can just watch Lagaan

 

[Debris]

i am saying

1. the english behaved in a high handed manner to fellow englishmen. the amateurs treated the professionals badly.
2. when the game was brought over to the subcontinent the english treated the locals in a highhanded manner the same way amateurs treated the professionals.
3. after the englishmen left, the locals treated other locals in a highhanded manner and continued the tradition.
4. the english fixed their system on their own.
5. a new zealander came to india and told them to change their ways.

I never said it is okay to treat others in a high handed manner simply because a person cannot tell the difference between good and bad. since you want to know, let me tell you clearly that i think it is not right. ok?

all that i am saying is that the game of cricket has always had to deal with the class system. the root cause lies in the way the game has developed and spread over the centuries. it comes from the tradition of treating the poorer, less powerful team member like ****. even in a comedy like "the chronicles of slyme court" the baron treats his butler very badly, especially after the butler yorks him in a game of cricket. therefore, it is no surprise that the colonists looked at the natives with disdain. when they left, the natives found poorer cousins to look down upon equally disdainfully.

If the way cricket was spread was the problem, how do you explain countries like the WI and Australia where it has never been a problem?

 

[bagapath]

If the way cricket was spread was the problem, how do you explain countries like the WI and Australia where it has never been a problem?

Told you CLR James is a must read on this subject. West Indies cricket probably dealt with a lot more of this than any other brit colony. They never even had a full time black captain until frank worrell was given the job. The growth of cricket in that region is a story of class struggle as well. Viv Richards playing for black pride had a historical context to it.

Where are the native Australians in Australian cricket anyway? I rest my case.

 

[Debris]

Hmmm, I think we are arguing different topics here. I am not disputing there has been some appalling behaviour in the past. My argument is that it does not excuse poor behaviour by those who were victimised.