***Official*** South Africa in Sri Lanka

[Goughy]

If Jason is right about Kallis & Pollock missing, who is the outstanding candidiate that's been overlooked?

McKenzie. Many in the media and supporters think he should be captain. Prince is a bad choice because he should not be in the team. He is not in the top 20 batsmen in SA and no Im not going to draw up a list

EDIT- AB would also be a bad choice.

 

[wpdavid]

McKenzie. Many in the media and supporters think he should be captain. Prince is a bad choice because he should not be in the team. He is not in the top 20 batsmen in SA and no Im not going to draw up a list

EDIT- AB would also be a bad choice.

Interesting call to bring in a guy who's not been in the side for a while. Interesting take on Prince too - he just strikes me as just one of a number of guys in the side whose average would look pretty unhealthy if you discount the boot-filling exercises against Bang or what currently passes for Zim. We'll have to see how he pans out over the next year or so, I guess.

In any case, I can't help thinking it's something of a poisoned chalice, captaining a severely weakened SA side to SL without a spinner of any note. You'd have to expect them to get heavily beaten in both tests, which never looks good on a captain's CV.

 

[Goughy]

Talking to a lot of coaches and knowledgable SA cricket fans almost all want McKenzie in the team. He also features on the cover on a magazine (SA Wisden Cricketer I believe) with a headline like "Why SA needs McKenzie"

His test average may not reflect it (he was messed around) but he is one of the top 6 players in SA and probably the best captain.

 

[wpdavid]

Talking to a lot of coaches and knowledgable SA cricket fans almost all want McKenzie in the team. He also features on the cover on a magazine (SA Wisden Cricketer I believe) with a headline like "Why SA needs McKenzie"

His test average may not reflect it (he was messed around) but he is one of the top 6 players in SA and probably the best captain.

Fair enough. Is the widespread view that he should just be in the side, or that he should also replace Smith as captain?

EDIT
Looking at his stats, he played over 40 tests over a 4 year period - why do you reackon he was messed around?

 

[Goughy]

Fair enough. Is the widespread view that he should just be in the side, or that he should also replace Smith as captain?

In the team for sure, and many want him as captain. Smith has never been a particularly popular captain though he does have his supporters.

This is old, but to prove a point, he was not even selected for this tour! and since then more and more people want him included currently.
http://www.sasi.co.za/static/poll/results.php?PID=24

EDIT
Looking at his stats, he played over 40 tests over a 4 year period - why do you reackon he was messed around?

Fair enough, compared to guys like Hall, Van Jaarsveld etc he had a relatively bump free ride (maybe I was looking for excuses for his poor test record ) but he is a far better player than both.

As for being messed around, he was thrown in as an opener, despite playing 40 tests in 4 years was never cemented and secure in his place (looking for players to sacrifice to make way for development players etc) and once he lost his place never getting it back.

Again, I admit he has not been messed around as others have been but he was never given the appreciation a player of his ability deserved and in those 40 tests he played he opened, and batted at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.

 

[Dasa]

McKenzie. Many in the media and supporters think he should be captain. Prince is a bad choice because he should not be in the team. He is not in the top 20 batsmen in SA and no Im not going to draw up a list

Here's something I posted during the last South Africa vs New Zealand series:

It's surprising to see how well Prince has done since his recall to the Test side. He played seven Tests upto 2002 for 185 runs @ 16.82. Since he was recalled in 2005, he's made 857 runs @ 50.41. Probably the best apart from Kallis in the South African team.

Even taking Zimbabwe into account, he's performed creditably, and better than many of his counterparts.

 

[Goughy]

Even taking Zimbabwe into account, he's performed creditably, and better than many of his counterparts.

He has done surprizingly well, but the thing about evaluating talent is that it is long term projections and I don't believe he is capable of coming close to continuing it. Having watched a lot of him and SA domestic cricket I stand by the fact that he is not close to being selected on merit.


EDIT- Prince has scored 4 centuries. In those 4 games their was a total of 17 centuries scored and in the team innings that he scored 100s the South African totals were 480-7 dec, 588-6 dec, 451-9 dec, 512 all out. This suggests he has only managed to score on the flattest of tracks and the fact that he has only 1 fifty shows he struggles to get going on anything but belting batting wickets.

The opposition (ignoring the Zim game) averaged 64.2 per wicket in the games Prince scored hundreds in (total of 16 tons in 3 games for both teams). This extrapolates to and average all out total of 642 and again shows that Princes 100s were hardly scored on difficult wickets.

 

[Langeveldt]

What do you think about Boeta Dippenaar in test cricket? Fed up with all the okes calling Prince "SA's first black captain".. he isn't black!

 

[Scaly piscine]

He has done surprizingly well, but the thing about evaluating talent is that it is long term projections and I don't believe he is capable of coming close to continuing it. Having watched a lot of him and SA domestic cricket I stand by the fact that he is not close to being selected on merit.


EDIT- Prince has scored 4 centuries. In those 4 games their was a total of 17 centuries scored and in the team innings that he scored 100s the South African totals were 480-7 dec, 588-6 dec, 451-9 dec, 512 all out. This suggests he has only managed to score on the flattest of tracks and the fact that he has only 1 fifty shows he struggles to get going on anything but belting batting wickets.

The opposition (ignoring the Zim game) averaged 64.2 per wicket in the games Prince scored hundreds in (total of 16 tons in 3 games for both teams). This extrapolates to and average all out total of 642 and again shows that Princes 100s were hardly scored on difficult wickets.

It would probably be better if you took out Prince's contributions when calculating the average per wicket, that figure is bound to be higher than usual if you include his 100+ in it, so we're interesting what the pitch was like for other players.

 

[Goughy]

It would probably be better if you took out Prince's contributions when calculating the average per wicket, that figure is bound to be higher than usual if you include his 100+ in it, so we're interesting what the pitch was like for other players.

The average per wicket is that of the opposition. Princes contributions are not included.

The opposition (ignoring the Zim game) averaged 64.2 per wicket in the games Prince scored hundreds in (total of 16 tons in 3 games for both teams). This extrapolates to and average all out total of 642 and again shows that Princes 100s were hardly scored on difficult wickets.

 

[Goughy]

What do you think about Boeta Dippenaar in test cricket? Fed up with all the okes calling Prince "SA's first black captain".. he isn't black!

Funny you should mention that. Pretoria News ran the headline "SAs first Black Captain" and my first thought was he is not black.

As for Boeta Dippenaar I am not a big fan. As Amla gets more established and other young guns come through he will lose his place. He has never looked test class and he is no longer young.

My SA Batting Line Up would be
Smith
Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
Rudolph
McKenzie
De Villiers

I would also be looking at young guys like Davey Jacobs and JP Duminy (not his biggest fan but he deserves to be looked at due to his high average) ahead of Dipenaar and Prince.

There are also some older guys I would look at too.

 

[wpdavid]

Funny you should mention that. Pretoria News ran the headline "SAs first Black Captain" and my first thought was he is not black.

As for Boeta Dippenaar I am ot a big fan. As Amla gets more established and other young guns come through he will lose his place. He has never looked test class and he is no longer young.

My SA Batting Line Up would be
Smith
Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
Rudolph
McKenzie
De Villiers

I would also be looking at young guys like Davey Jacobs and JP Duminy (not his biggest fan but he deserves to be looked at due to his high average) ahead of Dipenaar and Prince.

There are also some older guys I would look at too.

Presumably DeV is keeping wicket if he's batting at 7?

 

[Goughy]

Presumably DeV is keeping wicket if he's batting at 7?

Aye, he could bat at 5 or 6 as well. I have written a lot about how SA weakens its self by playing 2 keepers especially when one is a quality batsman and the other has barely scored a run for a while.

You should only ever play 2 keepers if they are both in the top 7 batsmen available. Boucher isnt and must make way for another batsman. Lengthening the batting line up would allow a player like Thandi Tshabalala and others like him who cannot bat be considered at number 11.

Same goes with a name I mentioned in the earlier post. Davey Jacobs. As a keeper he should only be included if he is one of the top 7 batsmen. If he isnt then he should not play and De Villiers should continue to keep. If he is then great. He can keep, De Villiers can open and Gibbs can drop down the order.

 

[Langeveldt]

I saw Davey Jacobs bat in the Standard Bank cup against WP, I know it was only one game, but wow did he look class

 

[Goughy]

I saw Davey Jacobs bat in the Standard Bank cup against WP, I know it was only one game, but wow did he look class

Hes a talented boy.

On a side note, (this is not addressed to you, Langers, but to others that may not know)
It is hard to judge the potential of a South African player by looking at his first class average. This is because the SAA Provincial Challenge is classed as FC cricket. They are generally called the 'Amateur' side and is the equivelent of English 2nd team cricket.

So when you look at a SA players first class stats you have no idea if they were for performances in the 1st team or 2nd teams and it makes it difficult to compare like to like.

 

[dinu23]

SL cricket to be run by former players led by Ranathunga...
http://www.cricinfo.net/cricket/afpNews/index/user/us03/ref/060714113133.9npwp55t.html

 

[JASON]

SL cricket to be run by former players led by Ranathunga...
http://www.cricinfo.net/cricket/afpNews/index/user/us03/ref/060714113133.9npwp55t.html

While I don't like Arjuna's Politics (with regard to what he stands for), I have great regard for his Cricketing and administrative capabilities. Definitely a good move.

But one hopes they do not start playing Blue versus Green (The Colours of SL's major political parties in the Southern 2/3rds of the Country) Politics within Cricket and run it with a neutral mindset, keeping the politics out.

 

[dinu23]

While I don't like Arjuna's Politics (with regard to what he stands for), I have great regard for his Cricketing and administrative capabilities. Definitely a good move.

But one hopes they do not start playing Blue versus Green (The Colours of SL's major political parties in the Southern 2/3rds of the Country) Politics within Cricket and run it with a neutral mindset, keeping the politics out.

well, we just have to wait and see. personally I'm optimistic about this.

 

[Lostman]

this is going to turn into the usual circus that is the SLC

 

[JASON]

Looks like Atapattu is going to miss SA series .
http://www.cricketweb.net/article.php?CategoryIDAuto=1&NewsIDAuto=2083
Saves the SL selectors a headache as to who should be dropped to bring him back into the side .