*Official* South Africa in Pakistan

[Beleg]

What's DWTA?

And no there isn't. As far as I am concerned, it would be far more shameful to basically concede the series when you are still in with a chance of keeping it.

And given the conditions and the batting, Pakistan definitely are in with a chance, however slight it might be.

 

[shortpitched713]

Umm, there would be nothing wrong with being defensive if Pakistan were WINNING the series. As it stands, we are losing. If we win this match, the series is levelled. If we lose, well, there isn't much difference between 1-0 and 2-0. The focus is NOT on saving the match, but saving the series.

It's the winning mentality which seperates mediocre teams from great ones.

Disagree. There is a huge difference. Every Test match is played for its own sake. Yeah, its nice to win series, but thats not the be all end all, especially in a shortened series like this. One should try to obtain the best result from every Test match and in this case the best reasonably attainable result is a draw. Of course that could change if the bowling early in the day tomorrow is absolutely rank, but imo we shouldn't be looking to take too many risks.

 

[silentstriker]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with being defensive. But for once, I have to disagree with Prince EWS. The Test match is not played in a vacuum. It's part of a series, you either lose, draw or win. If you lose this match, you've still lost the series and it doesn't matter. If you win, you have a chance to draw the series, which is a hundred times better.

There is a time to draw matches, and there is nothing wrong with it. But you can't just concede the series without trying. South Africa had to go for a win in Australia a couple years back and ended up losing, but that's exactly what they should have done.

A lost series is a lost series. I can see going for a draw when you're 3-0 down in a four match series with one to play, because you've already lost the series and you don't want to get swept. But if you have a chance to win, and you decide strategically not to take it, it's very poor play for mine. I can also see if the series is tied and you're happy with a draw and don't push for the win. But I don't see how many professional cricketer can be happy with a lost series. Unless you are Bangladesh and a draw is a big achievement for you, it's very poor play if they don't even try.

They need to score between four and five runs an over on a final day of a Test match to win, and that's almost impossible to sustain (considering how rarely that's happened), but you've nothing to lose in the context of the series and they should go down blazing.

They should see off the first five-ten overs tomorrow, see how the pitch is playing and go from there. Even if the pitch is a nightmare, they need to buckle down and go for the win. Remember, it's their ONLY hope of improving the outcome of the series.

 

[shortpitched713]

What's DWTA?

And no there isn't. As far as I am concerned, it would be far more shameful to basically concede the series when you are still in with a chance of keeping it.

And given the conditions and the batting, Pakistan definitely are in with a chance, however slight it might be.

There's no way we're getting almost 5 an over off Harris and a seamer on a fifth day pitch. Harris is simply bowling too tightly, and our batsmen would need to take insane risks off of the seamers to stay anywhere near the run rate. Likely our batsmen will fall playing daft strokes to the seamers, and would probably still be behind the run rate.

Our batting is strong, but out of touch and prone to collapse. I don't think we should neccessarily wall up from the beginning if runs are on offer, but if we lose a couple of wickets then clearly it would be time to set up shop and try to play through the day.

DWTA = disagree with the above.

 

[wpdavid]

What's DWTA?

And no there isn't. As far as I am concerned, it would be far more shameful to basically concede the series when you are still in with a chance of keeping it.

And given the conditions and the batting, Pakistan definitely are in with a chance, however slight it might be.

Dead right on all counts. Unless Pak lose early wickets, what's the point in not going for it? Apart from saving the series, they'd have the chance to make history with the biggest ever run chase in tests. And what a spectacular way for Inzi to finish.

It's not as if the required rate is massive, so normal batting for the first two sessions should keep them in contention, and then have a dart if it's remotely on.

EDIT
It' a fraction under 4 an over if they get a full day's play, isn't it? And Harris will only be bowling from one end.

 

[shortpitched713]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with being defensive. But for once, I have to disagree with Prince EWS. The Test match is not played in a vacuum. It's part of a series, you either lose, draw or win. If you lose this match, you've still lost the series and it doesn't matter. If you win, you have a chance to draw the series, which is a hundred times better.

There is a time to draw matches, and there is nothing wrong with it. But you can't just concede the series without trying. South Africa had to go for a win in Australia a couple years back and ended up losing, but that's exactly what they should have done.

A lost series is a lost series. I can see going for a draw when you're 3-0 down in a four match series with one to play, because you've already lost the series and you don't want to get swept. But if you have a chance to win, and you decide strategically not to take it, it's very poor play for mine. I can also see if the series is tied and you're happy with a draw and don't push for the win. But I don't see how many professional cricketer can be happy with a lost series. Unless you are Bangladesh and a draw is a big achievement for you, it's very poor play if they don't even try.

They should see off the first five-ten overs tommorow, see how the pitch is playing and go from there. Even if the pitch is a nightmare, they need to buckle down and go for the win. Remeber, it's their ONLY hope of improving the outcome of the series.

This situation is different to the one that South Africa faced against Australia. In that case IIRC they made a very sporting declaration and their bowling let them down. It was not a case where they threw away their chances of a draw for an absolutely miniscule chance of a win, as is the case right now for Pakistan.

 

[shortpitched713]

EDIT
It' a fraction under 4 an over if they get a full day's play, isn't it? And Harris will only be bowling from one end.

Calculated 4.65 from 75 overs. No stroll in the park.

 

[silentstriker]

This situation is different to the one that South Africa faced against Australia. In that case IIRC they made a very sporting declaration and their bowling let them down. It was not a case where they threw away their chances of a draw for an absolutely miniscule chance of a win, as is the case right now for Pakistan.

Doesn't matter. You have nine wickets and need to bat absolutely brilliant on a last day to save your series. Winning in the subcontinent is a big deal, and you've given that away. If there is any chance to take that back - you need to risk whatever you need to.

 

[shortpitched713]

Doesn't matter. You have nine wickets and need to bat absolutely brilliant on a last day to save your series. Winning in the subcontinent is a big deal, and you've given that away. If there is any chance to take that back - you need to risk whatever you need to.

Putting aside such romantic notions as "Fortress Pakistan", I think its fair to say we gave away our chance to save this series by not accumulating enough runs in the first innings of either match.

 

[wpdavid]

Calculated 4.65 from 75 overs. No stroll in the park.

Is that all they're managing? I was assuming a full 90 overs.

 

[Goughy]

Pakistan have to go for it. If they draw the series is lost anyway.

The chances of success are slim but noone ever did anything without making an attempt.

Would be one of Paks greatest ever Test victories if they did it.

I dont care if they get bowled out for 185 before lunch tomorrow as long as they go down fighting.

 

[silentstriker]

Putting aside such romantic notions as "Fortress Pakistan", I think its fair to say we gave away our chance to save this series by not accumulating enough runs in the first innings of either match.

Yea, you did. But you have a slim chance to get it back and you don't have anything to lose. You've already lost, and to me, the margin is irrelevent. The only chance is to win or go out blazing. The fact that South Africa will be positively giddy at the thought of Pakistan not going for it and achieving a series win in the subcontinent alone means Pakistan should go for it.

 

[shortpitched713]

You've already lost, and to me, the margin is irrelevent.

Thats where we differ then. Personally I watch dead rubber ODI matches with as much interest as when the series is live.

 

[nexxus]

Not to mention there aren't any fielding restrictions in test matches. Smith could easily pack the offside field, bowl a metre wide outside off & slow the game down to a crawl if the Pakistan started threatening.

Inzi & MoYo, great as their records are, aren't exactly known for their harelike scurrying between the wickets, they won't be pushing the South African fielders with quick 2's & 3's to cover up lack of boundarys.

 

[The Sean]

Agree with Beleg, SS, Goughy et al on this one - if there's a chance to win the Test match and, more importantly, square the series then they have to go for it. I'd rather lose a series 2-0 while giving myself a chance to square it than "settle" for 1-0 and play out the draw.

 

[shortpitched713]

The goal, stated or not, of every Test playing nation is to ascend to the top of the ICC Test Rankings in order to claim the title of best Test team in the world. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that according to those rankings, the difference between a 2-0 series and a 1-0 series is considered the same as the difference between a 1-0 series and a 1-1 series.

 

[silentstriker]

The goal, stated or not, of every Test playing nation is to ascend to the top of the ICC Test Rankings in order to claim the title of best Test team in the world. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that according to those rankings, the difference between a 2-0 series and a 1-0 series is considered the same as the difference between a 1-0 series and a 1-1 series.

The goal of every Test playing nation is to win as many matches as possible, and as many series as possible. I don't think anyone seriously pays attention to the rankings, except that #1 spot. And Pakistan aren't going to challenge anytime soon for that spot anyway.

 

[shortpitched713]

I'd like to think that somewhere there's a large table in the sky, where the result of every Test match, dead or otherwise is recorded. In the end this table will be used to compile the ranking of every country to play in the history of Test cricket. Above these rankings will be written in gilded letters: 2 points for a loss, 1 point for a draw, and 0 points for a loss. It brings me great comfort to believe in such a thing, I don't see why you'd like to take that away from someone.

 

[gunner]

pakistan should and will go for the win all depending on the 1st session,
if akmal and younis stay there for the 1st session then pakistan have a great chance but what might hurt pakistan is the lack of big hitters,

sure inzi,malik,yousuf can hit big when required but what if we need like 70 off the last 10 overs?

 

[howardj]

Jacquesy - an average of 210.5 for the series.

Smith has annointed him as South Africa's best ever batsman: http://www.smh.com.au/news/Sport/Kallis-is-Proteas-best-batsman-Smith/2007/10/12/1191696123994.html