***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[veganbob]

Whoever keeps I would like to see them open. That way we are losing a early wicket at worst and that is fairly normal. Could have an upside too if they open well. Id like to see them go all out bang mccullum mode.

That was brownlies only hope too. He is never gonna be a good odi opener when even in great form he gets out for 30 or 40 off 40 or 50 balls. Given his inconsistency and inability to score big vs good attacks, if he plays hes better to go for the shots. Even if he gets out 35 off 25 is acceptable.

 

[Immenso]

I like having Latham in the odi team because I think it improves his test game (gapping it).

But. Since he started keeping as well as opening his form has plummeted. I'm cool with rotating him out and then giving home the tri series in Ireland to integrate back into the time after the test season is over.

Of course this form slump causation could be arrival if Aus / SAF bowling attacks, rather than keeping duties.

Either way. I think Latham opening in a tournament played in England is a decent percentage selection. But don't have to doggedly stick to it 4 months out ..... at expense of other formats etc

 

[Immenso]

NZ ODI Openers, since 30/09/14 (excluding Zim) (E.g. dated since Brownlie returned after 3 year absence)



Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50



MJ Guptill

2014-2017 51 50 5 2103 237* 46.73 2189 96.07

BB McCullum

2015-2016 25 25 0 826 117 33.04 539 153.24

TWM Latham

2015-2017 24 24 2 713 137 32.40 861 82.81

DG Brownlie

2014-2017 7 7 0 265 63 37.85 335 79.10

AP Devcich

2014-2014 3 3 0 84 58 28.00 108 77.77

JDS Neesham

2014-2014 3 2 0 26 16 13.00 33 78.78

L Ronchi

2015-2015 1 1 0 1 1 1.00 4 25.00



Latham (all excluding Zim):

Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50

CAREER (excluding Zim)

2012-2017 53 52 7 1367 137 30.37 1723 79.33 2 6

Opening (excluding Zim)

2012-2016 25 25 3 848 137 38.54 1021 83.05 1 6

Opening & Keeping

2016-2016 4 4 0 9 7 2.25 34 26.47 0 0

Opening & not keeping (since 30/09/14)

2015-2016 20 20 2 704 137 39.11 827 85.12 1 5

Opening & Keeping (since 30/09/14)

2016-2016 4 4 0 9 7 2.25 34 26.47 0 0

 

[Days of Grace]

Latham is a prize asset as a test opener and I am loathe to do anything with him that will lessen his effectiveness as a test-class opener (a rare breed in NZ test history).

Interesting that Ronchi only had one go as ODI opener. Even though he was more than likely to be terribad, perhaps he could have replaced McCullum in the 40 off 25 ball role at the top of the order. Even if he came off 4 out of 10 times, it would have been okay.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Lukje Ronchi as an ODI opener in England

0 - - 3 0 v England Lord's 31 May 2013 ODI # 3360
2 - - 1 1 v England Southampton 2 Jun 2013 ODI # 3361
22 - - 0 0 v England Nottingham 5 Jun 2013 ODI # 3362
7 - - 1 0 v Sri Lanka Cardiff 9 Jun 2013 ODI # 3366
14 - - 2 0 v Australia Birmingham 12 Jun 2013 ODI # 3369
2 - - 1 0 v England Cardiff 16 Jun 2013 ODI # 3373


filtered 6 47 22 7.83

Thanks, but no thanks

 

[_Ed_]

For what it's worth, BJ Watling as keeper and opener in ODIs: five innings, 112 runs @ 37.33. Admittedly bolstered by a 96 v Sri Lanka.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Lukje Ronchi as an ODI opener in England

0 - - 3 0 v England Lord's 31 May 2013 ODI # 3360
2 - - 1 1 v England Southampton 2 Jun 2013 ODI # 3361
22 - - 0 0 v England Nottingham 5 Jun 2013 ODI # 3362
7 - - 1 0 v Sri Lanka Cardiff 9 Jun 2013 ODI # 3366
14 - - 2 0 v Australia Birmingham 12 Jun 2013 ODI # 3369
2 - - 1 0 v England Cardiff 16 Jun 2013 ODI # 3373


filtered 6 47 22 7.83

Thanks, but no thanks

Apologies to any Welshmen reading this thread

 

[Blain]

Ronchi has averaged 11 since the world cup, 2 years ago almost. If he was a young player, he would have been flicked over a year ago.

Phillips is a batsman and wicket keeper second, I can't see him handling the gloves and opening the batting well. Especially after only 1 good season. Needs more time. Blundell is inconsistent, but has made the team previously. If Latham gets dropped, he has got to be next in line. Not opening either, chuck him in at 7. Worker to open, takes the 5/6th bowling option off CDG also..

 

[Flem274*]

Guptill
Latham/Brownlie/Phillips
Williamson
Taylor
Broom/Bruce/Chapman
Neesham/colin de ATGrandhomme
Blundell/Cleaver/Seifert (wk)
Santner/Sodhi
Southee/Henry
Milne/Ferguson
Boult

I'm happy enough with any combination of the above for 2017. Anderson not included until he's fit to bowl sadly

 

[Prince EWS]

I think it'd be extraordinarily rough to drop Latham entirely for batting poorly while double-burdened with the gloves, given his ODI batting seemed to be really improving before that. Fair enough to decide he shouldn't be given both roles anymore after his poor run, but even in that even he should still be opening with a keeper down the order IMO.

 

[Zinzan]

For what it's worth, BJ Watling as keeper and opener in ODIs: five innings, 112 runs @ 37.33. Admittedly bolstered by a 96 v Sri Lanka.

I know, but please let's not go there. I just don't think he has what it takes for white-ball batting these days, maybe 5 years ago his style may have suited, but not in 2017. I don't even think he looked all that good in the domestic T20s compared with other non-international bats on the scene, saying nothing about his dreadful performance in Australia when he was given a crack.

Watling would be a big step back for mine, might as well stick to Latham if you're looking in that direction.

 

[hendrix]

I think it'd be extraordinarily rough to drop Latham entirely for batting poorly while double-burdened with the gloves, given his ODI batting seemed to be really improving before that. Fair enough to decide he shouldn't be given both roles anymore after his poor run, but even in that even he should still be opening with a keeper down the order IMO.

This this this.

He's finally getting the role he's suited to (opening), but he's overburdened with the gloves. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater etc.

 

[hendrix]

That said I do think Guptill-Brownlie is an interesting pairing considering their complementary strengths/weaknesses.

 

[SteveNZ]

I think it'd be extraordinarily rough to drop Latham entirely for batting poorly while double-burdened with the gloves, given his ODI batting seemed to be really improving before that. Fair enough to decide he shouldn't be given both roles anymore after his poor run, but even in that even he should still be opening with a keeper down the order IMO.

All of his four innings with the gloves have been in the first innings of the match. Are we to presume it's a mental burden, not a physical one? Not so sure myself. Suppose only he'd know.

 

[TT Boy]

Surprised South Africa only selected 1 spinner for the test squad. Way Hamilton was the other day I’m sure NZ will go in with two spinners there.

 

[StephenZA]

Surprised South Africa only selected 1 spinner for the test squad. Way Hamilton was the other day I’m sure NZ will go in with two spinners there.

It would really have to be a raging turner (see match today) for SA to pick a 2nd spinner in a test. Elgar and Duminy will play backup spinners if needed.

 

[Dendarii]

I doubt South Africa would have gone in with two spinners in any of the tests, but I am a little surprised that there's no backup spinner in the squad, especially given the travel that's involved. If something happens to Maharaj, getting a replacement out there (and him adjusting to the time difference) isn't a quick and easy thing to do.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The only reason NZ will play 2 spinners in the Hamilton test will be if Wagner doesn't recover from injury in time. Wagner and Boult are undroppable and Southee has had a very good home test summer. Santner could bat 6 with Ish at 8 but that's a very long tail to expose to rabada and big Vern. I can't see Astle or Craig who could bat 8 getting picked either. I expect the same attack with Neesham pushing CDG for no 6. If it turns in the Tron, KW might bowl a bit.

 

[Bahnz]

It's another beauty today in the capital. Going to the game this afternoon, here's hoping for another cracker.

 

[_Ed_]

Hmm, Ferguson in for Sodhi.