***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[StephenZA]

Glad we broke that partnership... touch lucky but will take it. Just get Willamson now.

 

[Zinzan]

Glad we broke that partnership... touch lucky but will take it. Just get Willamson now.

I do hope Taylor can rotate strike early on.

 

[StephenZA]

Morris has bowled well today..... is definitely a bit of an x-factor player with bat and ball.

 

[straw man]

C'mon Taylor, with your experience you know it's going to hold up on this wicket :/

 

[Zinzan]

Morris has bowled well today..... is definitely a bit of an x-factor player with bat and ball.

I don't think he's been nearly as good as he was 2 days ago tbh, couple of gifted wickets if we're honest about it. And a few wides.

 

[Bahnz]

...I've already conceded I got the number wrong. So no need for the "err, identical" snarkiness. My point still stands. You haven't made a case that Taylor is terrible at T20. You have simply asserted that he is, citing "he hasn't learnt new shots" and "bowlers have figured him out."

What is and isn’t terrible is fairly subjective. And given that your whole rebuttal was built on falsehoods and conjecture, I think a little snark was warranted.

Taylor clearly has been found out to an extent. His early success (at least in domestic T20’s) was built around the cow corner hockey slog. That single shot was what one him a million dollar IPL contract. Once bowlers figures out how one dimensional his mode of attack was, they adjusted pretty easily, and Taylor’s effectiveness in T20 leagues declined remarkably. It’s not a coincidence that he can no longer get a gig in the IPL.

For the record, I’d still have him in the team, as with McCullum and Elliot retired and Guptill injured I think there’s a severe shortage of quality in our top order.

 

[StephenZA]

I don't think he's been nearly as good as he was 2 days ago tbh, couple of gifted wickets if we're honest about it. And a few wides.

He`s been a bit expensive... but swung the ball early and varied his pace and length well.

This is the period where Tahir comes into his own. Keeps the pressure up threatens to take wickets against the middle/lower order players.

 

[S.Kennedy]

We've signed Latham for next season also!

 

[Zinzan]

He`s been a bit expensive... but swung the ball early and varied his pace and length well.

This is the period where Tahir comes into his own. Keeps the pressure up threatens to take wickets against the middle/lower order players.

Tell you what, If Sodhi can land it even 80% as well as he did in that recent 6-fer on this wicket albeit it being a BB game, he could be a nightmare for SA.

 

[banquetbear]

What is and isn’t terrible is fairly subjective. And given that your whole rebuttal was built on falsehoods and conjecture, I think a little snark was warranted.

...calling a mistake a "falsehood" implies I was lying. Please don't do that.

Taylor clearly has been found out to an extent. His early success (at least in domestic T20’s) was built around the cow corner hockey slog. That single shot was what one him a million dollar IPL contract. Once bowlers figures out how one dimensional his mode of attack was, they adjusted pretty easily, and Taylor’s effectiveness in T20 leagues declined remarkably. It’s not a coincidence that he can no longer get a gig in the IPL.

For the record, I’d still have him in the team, as with McCullum and Elliot retired and Guptill injured I think there’s a severe shortage of quality in our top order.

So for the record you'd have "terrible" player in the team?

 

[StephenZA]

Morris definitely trying to check the ability of the NZ batsmen to hook the ball....

 

[straw man]

Wow. I was going to say the stage was set for a collapse against Tahir and Shamsi... but Morris is doing the trick.

 

[Zinzan]

Morris needs to buy a lotto ticket here, I mean he's been good, but not 4 wickets in a few overs good. Diabolical execution from NZ, Broom & Brownlie are both perfectly capable of playing the hook stroke too.

 

[Bahnz]

...calling a mistake a "falsehood" implies I was lying. Please don't do that.



So for the record you'd have "terrible" player in the team?

When did I ever say he was terrible?

 

[hendrix]

...I've already conceded I got the number wrong. So no need for the "err, identical" snarkiness. My point still stands. You haven't made a case that Taylor is terrible at T20. You have simply asserted that he is, citing "he hasn't learnt new shots" and "bowlers have figured him out."

Of course it "doesn't mean anything." "Terrible" is a subjective statement. I don't think he is a terrible t20 player at all. I most certainly would have picked him ahead of Phillips for the last game: even if they had to shuffle the order. Most people here seem to think that Taylor should come back to the t20 team. If he was as terrible as you imply he wouldn't even be in the frame for re-selection.

I believe there was intent to remove Taylor from the captaincy and give it to McCullum. Which was why Taylor was marginalised in the first place. And it worked.

You are free to believe what you like.

I'm not debating with the decision to drop him with you. I'm stating that characterizing Taylor as a terrible t20 play is a gross distortion of reality. He isn't a terrible t20 player. He isn't the best t20 player. But he most certainly isn't terrible.

RE: this bizarre semantics debate, context is important. It should be pretty clear that I was both speaking relatively using hyperbole.

- speaking relatively: comparison between ODI, Test and t20 records
- using hyperbole: obviously "terrible" isn't quite fair. I'm not gonna go picking perfect words when I want to make a point: that his dropping was perfectly justifiable.

RE: my assertions: some qualitative analysis is justifiable. Particularly in t20s, having run-scoring options is pretty crucial as the modern game centers around limiting scoring shots to certain regions. Taylor's drop-off in effectiveness in t20s has been pretty consistent with bowlers figuring out how to limit the damage he can do.

 

[StephenZA]

Well played, deserved 50 for Williamson. Class player.

 

[hendrix]

TBH I've repeatedly called for Taylor to add just 1-2 extra, unorthodox shots to his repertoire - particularly a reverse sweep - as I think it would make him so much harder to bowl to and an even better player than he already is in all formats.

 

[Zinzan]

...calling a mistake a "falsehood" implies I was lying. Please don't do that.

To be fair, you may have acknowledged the error, but you then maintained the point stood, when your point was based on a statistical equivalency that didn't exist.

 

[Zinzan]

Meanwhile NZ falling well behind here.... possibly thinking 200 will be enough. I think they need 230 minimum.

 

[hendrix]

Anyone else notice Kane Williamson's game plan to spin?

Front foot then back foot then front foot then back foot etc etc. It's pretty consistent. He'll be down the pitch, then the next ball he'll try to cut or pull from deep in his crease. I've seen him almost get LBW a few times but he's usually good enough to get something on it even when he goes back to a really full ball.