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***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

Zinzan

Zinzan

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Funny how I was deflated with the news both Taylor and Boult were injured, but am utterly indifferent about Southee being ruled out. Couldn't give a toss.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Bahnz said:
He's taken 27 wickets at 24.5 this summer. Yeah, Pakistan and the Bangerz don't have the best batting lineups but those are still perfectly excellent numbers.
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Wagner's taken 28 and Boult 24. Statistically they've done well as a unit.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Bahnz said:
He's taken 27 wickets at 24.5 this summer. Yeah, Pakistan and the Bangerz don't have the best batting lineups but those are still perfectly excellent numbers.
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That is kind of the point though, when was the last time Southee did anything of note against quality opposition, or in challenging conditions?

CDG was averaging about 10 after the Pakistan series wasn't he?
 
Howsie

Howsie

Cricketer Of The Year
When was the last time Wagner did anything of note against quality opposition? And I'm not talking about 5fers when the opposing team has racked up 450 plus.
 
SeamUp

SeamUp

International Coach
Howsie said:
When was the last time Wagner did anything of note against quality opposition? And I'm not talking about 5fers when the opposing team has racked up 450 plus.
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Lol

Where were the other blokes when the opposition got to 450
 
SeamUp

SeamUp

International Coach
morgieb said:
Yeah IIRC Markram, Bavuma and de Bruyn all clearly have better franchise records.
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Oh cricket archive !

It is quite an interesting topic. You would think the higher the level the worse the average. Suppose some players just have that Bmt. My dad always used to tell me the great 60s Sa team picked Tiger Lance for that reason.

But getting back to this. I sometimes wonder if it is best for 18 and 19 year-olds to get thrown into the highest level. Are they spending time at the crease learning etc So possibly the reason like Klaasen says is that you possibly learning your game better and by tge time you at franchise level you just ready to score runs and take wickets.
 
Marius

Marius

International Debutant
SeamUp said:
Oh cricket archive !

It is quite an interesting topic. You would think the higher the level the worse the average. Suppose some players just have that Bmt. My dad always used to tell me the great 60s Sa team picked Tiger Lance for that reason.

But getting back to this. I sometimes wonder if it is best for 18 and 19 year-olds to get thrown into the highest level. Are they spending time at the crease learning etc So possibly the reason like Klaasen says is that you possibly learning your game better and by tge time you at franchise level you just ready to score runs and take wickets.
Click to expand...

I think sometimes it's better to bide your time in the provincial or state system, rather than getting thrown into Test cricket.

Lots of people reckon that's why we were still pretty good when we came back from isolation, we'd had a strong domestic system, so even though guys weren't playing Tests they were still learning their cricket against tough opponents.

I think Australia is a good example here. Just off the top of my head, look at Justin Langer, Matthew Hatden, and Damien Martyn. All had mediocre starts to their Test careers, got dropped and spent some time in Shield stuff and then came back and dominated international cricket.
 
SeamUp

SeamUp

International Coach
Marius said:
I think sometimes it's better to bide your time in the provincial or state system, rather than getting thrown into Test cricket.

Lots of people reckon that's why we were still pretty good when we came back from isolation, we'd had a strong domestic system, so even though guys weren't playing Tests they were still learning their cricket against tough opponents.

I think Australia is a good example here. Just off the top of my head, look at Justin Langer, Matthew Hatden, and Damien Martyn. All had mediocre starts to their Test careers, got dropped and spent some time in Shield stuff and then came back and dominated international cricket.
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We may be creating another level with provincial cricket but like you say doing your time at a certain level and doing it well for 2-5 years can only benefit you for the next level.

The anomalies is someone like Jacques Rudolph who frustratingly couldn't take his dominance to the next level.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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Howsie said:
When was the last time Wagner did anything of note against quality opposition? And I'm not talking about 5fers when the opposing team has racked up 450 plus.
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hmm, reckon zinzan wants to defend Wagner here but it's hard to do so without admitting he was wrong about Shakib.

GW Howsie.
 
S

SteveNZ

International Coach
Southee still has a place in this side, unfortunately it's as our third best bowler when it should be 1st/2nd as it was around 2012/13. That's probably everyone's issue. Plus he's been utter gash in ODIs, when we sorely need him heading into a World Cup in two years time where it's very likely going to hoop around with the Dukes.

And people could probably cop him a bit better if he wasn't such a **** head with the bat.
 
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