***Official*** South Africa in India

[popepouri]

I'm sorry but anyone who rates Paul Harris as a good spin bowler needs to have a re-think. He may be able to fill the "tight bowler" role on flat tracks, but he was piss poor this match. Similar to Hauritz ala 2004.

I don't think that's a fair comment. He had an bad series here but had a fantastic series against the Pakistanis where outbowled Kaneria and all other spinners. I wouldn't draw conclusions based on his last performances.

 

[Jono]

I don't think that's a fair comment. He had an bad series here but had a fantastic series against the Pakistanis where outbowled Kaneria and all other spinners. I wouldn't draw conclusions based on his last performances.

I respectfully disagree.

Kaneria is unfortunately no longer a good spinner. So outbowling Kaniera nowadays isn't that big a goldmine on your resume.

Secondly, with SA batting first in this test, if they had someone like a Vettori, Rafique, Razzak or Panesar, they would have had a real good shot of taking this test. 4-136 for this test match was just not good enough really. Particularly when Sehwag had 4-30.

Whether its a mindset, or simply the way Harris bowls, he didn't attack when he had to and the pitch looked totally different when he was bowling compared to Harbhajan and Sehwag.

 

[Jono]

Dhoni HAS established himself as the test wicket-keeper and thats his primary job, the reason he is in the team .... and he is averaging 33, which is not not bad .... btw, Boucher is averaging 30.02

it would also be like Flintoff being the Eng captain, who bowls well [his primary job] and averages 32.50. Now you woudn't say that for Flintoff to be Eng captain, i.e. he needs to bat well

And that 33 average of Dhoni's is not far behind Jaffar's 34, whom you used to support for a place in the Indian side as a specialist opener and he is not even an all-rounder

So if Jaffar's avg of 34 is good enough of you to support him for a place as an specialist opener, if Boucher avg of 30 is good enough for you to consider him as a specialist test batsmen, if you don't mind Flintoff leading Eng with a batting avg of 32 then why do you have probs with Dhoni's avg of 33 .... And it's not like he is doing is primary job badly

So much wrong with this post.

Firstly, stop comparing Dhoni's accomplishments with the bat to Boucher.

Secondly, don't bring Jaffer into this, because I'd never agree that Jaffer should be test captain.

And most importantly, you have to stop confusing my criticism of Dhoni as if I'm suggesting he shouldn't be in the team. HE SHOULD BE IN THE TEAM... just not as captain yet because his performances don't deserve him to be a SECURE spot, even though he obviously does have a secure spot (for an number of reasons, most which don't include his test batting)

For the record, I wanted Dhoni to be test and ODI captain when Dravid first stepped down, but:
a) seeing Kumble do a very good job as test captain since he took over
b) seeing the way Dhoni has batted at test level over the past few series

I have changed my mind, and would rather Dhoni have captaincy when Kumble retires.

 

[funnygirl]

I agreed each and every point that Jono made above except Kumble should be the captain ,no i prefer Dhoni over Kumble accepting his batting failures .Because Kumble even though did well in Australia ,is somewhat defensive .Dhoni (i hope will improve his batting ) is a master tactician .

 

[social]

Congrats to India - they got the pitch they wanted and executed perfectly

BUT with an unsettled opening combination, dodgy seam attack, ageing lineup and woeful fielding, it should be seen for what it is

 

[Googenheim]

Congratulations to the Indian team for winning without both their best batsman and best bowler of their generation and proving many wrong.

 

[Jono]

I'm a reasonably happy Indian fan, but I don't see how they really proved anyone wrong.

Don't think anyone stuck their neck out and said India would definitely lose this test match.

 

[popepouri]

I respectfully disagree.

Kaneria is unfortunately no longer a good spinner. So outbowling Kaniera nowadays isn't that big a goldmine on your resume.

Secondly, with SA batting first in this test, if they had someone like a Vettori, Rafique, Razzak or Panesar, they would have had a real good shot of taking this test. 4-136 for this test match was just not good enough really. Particularly when Sehwag had 4-30.

Whether its a mindset, or simply the way Harris bowls, he didn't attack when he had to and the pitch looked totally different when he was bowling compared to Harbhajan and Sehwag.

He still has over 200 wickets with an average of 32 and it was his home series. I don't think you can dismiss him that quickly.

I'd give him one more series before dropping him.

 

[Googenheim]

I'm a reasonably happy Indian fan, but I don't see how they really proved anyone wrong.

Don't think anyone stuck their neck out and said India would definitely lose this test match.

Well, didn't someone make the lofty claim of this series having all the hallmarks of a disaster for India? Its such a good thing he is admittedly gracious enough to not trot out the 'I told you so' line.

 

[Jono]

I'm not necessarily calling for Harris' head. I just think If I were a SA fan I would have been extremely disappointed with his performance, and I think he was being praised a little too quickly by a few.

 

[silentstriker]

BUT with an unsettled opening combination

What else is new?

, dodgy seam attack,

Seam attack's better than its been for decades.

ageing lineup

Not hugely worried, I think there are some good candidates to replace them, not Yuvraj though.

woeful fielding,

Our catching is not horrible, sort of related to the age. In ODI it's real bad, but it'll get better in Tests as more youth comes in.

it should be seen for what it is

A great performance in spin friendly conditions despite not having their best fast bowler and the best spin bowler and best batsman and losing the toss?

 

[jeevan]

I respectfully disagree.

Kaneria is unfortunately no longer a good spinner. So outbowling Kaniera nowadays isn't that big a goldmine on your resume.

Secondly, with SA batting first in this test, if they had someone like a Vettori, Rafique, Razzak or Panesar, they would have had a real good shot of taking this test. 4-136 for this test match was just not good enough really. Particularly when Sehwag had 4-30.

Whether its a mindset, or simply the way Harris bowls, he didn't attack when he had to and the pitch looked totally different when he was bowling compared to Harbhajan and Sehwag.

BTW Sehwag the bowler is having a fantastic 2008 . In 5 tests, 10 wickets @ avg ~20, SR ~ 45 with a wicket in every innings he's bowled. And the wickets are quality ones too, in Perth and here he broke a threatening second innings partnership right upon getting the ball and then picked another key scalp.

Most specialist spin bowlers would trade places with him for this patch.

 

[Jono]

A great performance in spin friendly conditions despite not having their best fast bowler and the best spin bowler in these conditions?

...And best batsman.

 

[silentstriker]

...And best batsman.

Good point.

 

[ret]

So much wrong with this post.

Firstly, stop comparing Dhoni's accomplishments with the bat to Boucher.

To me, both of them are more or less the same with the bat, with Dhoni's graph likely to go up

Secondly, don't bring Jaffer into this, because I'd never agree that Jaffer should be test captain.

this is the point on batting

was just wondering, how someone who would think Jaffar is good enough to play as a specialist opener with an avg of 34, would say that Dhoni is not that good with an avg of 33 and especially when his primary job is wktkeeping

and I don;t have to stop bringing points just because others think they are not related

And most importantly, you have to stop confusing my criticism of Dhoni as if I'm suggesting he shouldn't be in the team. HE SHOULD BE IN THE TEAM... just not as captain yet because his performances don't deserve him to be a SECURE spot, even though he obviously does have a secure spot (for an number of reasons, most which don't include his test batting)

For the record, I wanted Dhoni to be test and ODI captain when Dravid first stepped down, but:
a) seeing Kumble do a very good job as test captain since he took over
b) seeing the way Dhoni has batted at test level over the past few series

I have changed my mind, and would rather Dhoni have captaincy when Kumble retires.

If we are discussing Dhoni for captaincy then it's understood that it's not about Dhoni's place in the team, isn't it?

You are entitled to your opinion .... I answered the Q that you asked and elaborated on why I agree with some of the points that Cullinan made

 

[jeevan]

What else is new?



Seam attack's better than its been for decades.



Not hugely worried, I think there are some good candidates to replace them, not Yuvraj though.



Our catching is not horrible, sort of related to the age. In ODI it's real bad, but it'll get better in Tests as more youth comes in.



A great performance in spin friendly conditions despite not having their best fast bowler and the best spin bowler and best batsman?

.. and losing a crucial toss. Having to bat 4th was easily worth a 50-100 runs, in what was going to be a low scoring match.

BTW practically any test captain in the world (perhaps bar Australia) would love to have the problems of an ageing Tendulkar or a Ganguly - the way they have been playing the past few months (actually even Dravid, despite his very obvious and extended slump too). And all 3 are a very safe pair of catching hands.

Kumble's in an even better position, he'd probably make it into even the Australian side right now and cant think of a team (including SL) that wouldnt play him.

 

[Top_Cat]

Kumble's in an even better position, he'd probably make it into even the Australian side right now and cant think of a team (including SL) that wouldnt play him.

Surely he'd make into any side, any time, anywhere!

 

[sirdj]

Good win for India............I wonder why they could not have shown this grit earlier in the 2nd test.

From what all I hear and see about Dhoni, he seems to be quite an innovative captain. Some of his decisions look very inspired as they seem to come off more often than not.

 

[silentstriker]

Surely he'd make into any side, any time, anywhere!

Haha, but I do think he'd make into the Aussie side, IMO. Actually, he is a little out of form, but surely on uneven bounce tracks, they'd play him.

 

[Burgey]

Haha, but I do think he'd make into the Aussie side, IMO. Actually, he is a little out of form, but surely on uneven bounce tracks, they'd play him.

They'd play him any time atm, I reckon barring a raging green top.