**Official** South Africa in India Thread

[EnglishRose]

Well, that's that then. India were massive favourites going in, and they won through in the 2nd half of the final day. Well done to them, but well done to SA as well.

Kallis did get a life, but then again, so did Sehwag. Umpiring mistakes may have swung India's way, but I don't think it made a massive difference. The way Harbhajan & Kumble were going, they would've got the wickets regardless, just a little later. SA were 100-150 runs short on the 1st innings, and that made the difference in the end. India chasing 225 or so on the last day would have been challenging.

Ontong actually looked decent, albeit on a wicket that was turning so much he must've been wondering if he was having a wet dream. Even a 20th day St. George's Park pitch won't do that, which just shows how anti-spinner SA pitches are, cos this wasn't the worst by any stretch. I wonder why Smith only decided to bowl himself so late in the series, Rudolf had an injury, so that was why he didn't bowl much. Another case of a captain not bowling himself enough. Smith and Rudolf are both servicable spinners, I think they need to work on it. Especially since the only other spinner apart from Peterson, Ontong & Boje is Imraan Khan, and he's not much better than Ontong, more of an opening bat.

All in all, not a bad tour, certainly not as hopeless as Sri Lanka. Boje will be back for the England series, Gibbs and Boucher will probably be in the picture again. I'm a bit iffy about Gibbs right now, he's not been in good form for a while even in the couple of 1st class games he's played. I think it'd be better for him to bat his way back into the side rather than the selectors just handing his place back as if he's the prodigal son or something.

Now on to those pesky English, word has it they've been uppity lately. Have to put that right.

Nel and Boje should add strength to their attack for the England series --- but South Africa lack bowling depth big time IMO.

Where are the emerging quicks that their country was once renowned for ?

 

[masterblaster]

Good win to India. They just climbed to outright third in the ICC rankings, for the first time ever. I think the South Africans probably got punished again for some very negative cricket, as they did in Sri Lanka - they did have a somewhat weakened lineup though.

Ray Jennings will have the SAF players up for pushups and circuits of the oval at the crack of dawn, no doubt.

Third spot is a lofty perch, and India are sitting on it despite not being in the best of form. Hopefully this will spur them on to bigger and better things, but now it's 'Project Bangladesh' which shouldn't be so bad.

 

[SJS]

Good win to India. They just climbed to outright third in the ICC rankings, for the first time ever.

Unfortunately, this is not a reflection of India's resurgence but of the overall deterioration in world cricket standards and the big gap between Australia and the others.

 

[DocHead]

Nel and Boje should add strength to their attack for the England series --- but South Africa lack bowling depth big time IMO.

Where are the emerging quicks that their country was once renowned for ?

They're too busy getting injured. There are a couple, Langerveld (not a youngster, but he can swing it), Garnet Kruger, Nel (As much as I don't like him), Nantie Wayward, Zondeki (who seems to have fallen off the earth), Brendon Reddy (He looks like a good future all-rounder) & the walking stress fracture himself Mfuneko Ngam (who's playing for the Dolphins this season, hopefully he's getting forcefed a lot of calcium). There's also a young speedster from the Titans, I forget his name, but the commentators were slobbering over him, had quite a bit of pace about him. 4 out and out speedsters, all still very young and raw though. The others are medium-fast.

Smith, Gibbs, Rudolf, Kallis, Boeta, de Bruyn, Hall, Pollock, Boucher, Boje & Ntini would be a nicely balanced team on paper. Substitute Nel for de Bruyn for a bit of extra pace, or Langerveld for some swing. I hope they give Dippenaar some slack, he should get a run in the team. A bit harsh on the boy Amla, being dropped after 1 test, but he's young yet, and the mighty Dolphins need him to win the SS and I'm of course assuming that the selectors will stay true to form and move mountains to get an out of form Gibbs into the team. Otherwise, I'd still have Amla there.

 

[Spetsnatz]

Unfortunately, this is not a reflection of India's resurgence but of the overall deterioration in world cricket standards and the big gap between Australia and the others.

True -- Pakistan, West Indies and South Africa were all stronger sides say a decade ago.

But --- you can only look at the present, and despite all the calls for John Wright to be dumped he's still done a fairly good job in taking India to no.3, a position they have never achieved before.

 

[Arjun]

True -- Pakistan, West Indies and South Africa were all stronger sides say a decade ago.

But --- you can only look at the present, and despite all the calls for John Wright to be dumped he's still done a fairly good job in taking India to no.3, a position they have never achieved before.

Ummm....England's been out of action for long, so have the Lankans and Pakistanis. The New Zealand team is in terrible form now in Tests, so they wouldn't be going very high. Had at least three other teams been in action at present, the Indians may have been a lot lower.

 

[SJS]

True -- Pakistan, West Indies and South Africa were all stronger sides say a decade ago.

But --- you can only look at the present, and despite all the calls for John Wright to be dumped he's still done a fairly good job in taking India to no.3, a position they have never achieved before.

I suppose you could say that but I am so disappointed with the overall Indian performance. There has never been a better opportunity for the Indian team to challenge for the top spot and for them to reach the third spot in so unconvincing a manner breaks my heart.

 

[Jono]

I'm a happy man right now. Good win to India. I was very pleased to see Kumble and Harbhajan rip through South Africa, because Graham Smith really gave me a scare on day 4. Furthermore, I think Ganguly will feel relieved as I could see the delight on his face after a reasonably tough series. I think South Africa fought hard, but as everyone knows their lack of a quality spinner hurt them, I don't think it cost them the series, but it did hurt them.

However I offer no sympathy to some of their selections. Peterson isn't exactly the greatest spinner ever obviously, but why they dropped him for Ontong who is apparently more a batsman than bowler, yet play him at 9, is beyond me.

If I was a South African supporter I'd be pleased with some finds IMO. I think Amla has some talent (albeit he didn't get much of an opportunity to show it) and De Bruyn has really impressed me on this tour. Hall as well, with his good 100 in the first test and some impressive bowling in certain patches.

 

[Arjun]

Peterson isn't exactly the greatest spinner ever obviously

Navjot Singh Sidhu repeatedly saod that several Petersons are found in Delhi clubs. Paul Adams would be a better choice.

De Bruyn has really impressed me on this tour. Hall as well, with his good 100 in the first test and some impressive bowling in certain patches.

Me too. I would like to see players like these in the Indian team, not average seamers who can't bat.

 

[honestbharani]

I think it was a good win for India. They had to fight hard for it and I am pleased that they showed that they could do well even when they are forced to work hard, as in Kanpur, it seemed as though they just expected the SA batters to get themselves out. I like the way we were able to fight in this test match from difficult situations and it is good to see us doing well after having lost the toss, just so that some people will give up asking for Sourav's head because he does not win tosses.

 

[Pratters]

I went to the match today and it was very good test cricket I saw.

First of all kudos to Harbhajan Singh for bowling great..

Kudos to Kumble for maintaining pressure and emulating Kapil Dev

Thumb down to Gambhir for not having any power in his strokes and being out to one of the few balls which were not pitched outside the leg stump to him

Thumb down to Graeme Smith for not maintaining pressure after the first wicket went down and replacing the fast bowlers (Ntini who was bowling superb) with spinners and asking them to bowl a negative line) When Hall bowled later, he showed there was still a lot for the pacers.

Thank you to Dravid and Tendulkar for providing some good classic test cricket batting.

Finally I was supporting South Africa and was really disappointed they caved in so easily putting defensive tactics and not giving any fight to the Indians in the end....


I have attached three of the many pics I took in the ground. My PC has a virus attack and is behaving very badly.. so out of time and cant show more pics now.. Hope you enjoy these..

 

[DocHead]

However I offer no sympathy to some of their selections. Peterson isn't exactly the greatest spinner ever obviously, but why they dropped him for Ontong who is apparently more a batsman than bowler, yet play him at 9, is beyond me.

There's not a big difference between the spinning 'abilities' of Ontong or Peterson, they're both rubbish, Ontong offers slllllliiiiightly more with the bat. Adams is absolutely useless right now, he's lost form, confidence and probably fitness too. Not even playing as 1st spinner for his provincial side.....and he kinda blames it on Jennings' coaching in the SA A tour. So there's some good reasons not to pick him. Boje, well, those reasons are well documented.

Everyone in SA, except the selectors it seems, has known about Hall for ages, he's a bloody good allrounder, and he's got the intensity & guts to back it up. Sadly he's been perenially overlooked for whoever's the UCB's pet project that month.

Anyway, tour's over, I'm happier than I thought I would be, I honestly thought we were going to get completely stuffed, that's not been the case. In fact, if we had gotten Sehwag out cheaply in either test it might have been a different story. Ce'st la vie.

 

[honestbharani]

From the South African point of view, I think a couple of good all rounders have been unearthed (well, one was already pretty well known, I guess). I like the look of both Hall and De Bruyn. And I think if Hall is up for it physically and mentally, they should try him as a permanent no.3. And I think Rudolph should always bowl a bit in any test, under any conditions. On the whole, I think they can be proud of their efforts in this tour.

 

[Richard]

Assessment of the Test-series:
Smith - not a great series by his standards. Maybe he's now primed for another assault on the England bowlers?
Hall - one superb innings (well - two good ones, really - 77 and 86, both in the same knock) but I really don't think he's got what it takes to open the batting in Test-cricket, certainly in South Africa. I'd prefer see Herschelle recalled at the first opportunity. Bowling? Not too bad, but not really suggestive of making an impact in these conditions.
Kallis - nothing new here, a very fine batsman has another good time.
Rudolph - what is the deal with this fella? How inconsistent can he be? 14 in his first series, then about 80 in his next two but one, then nothing here... what next?
Van Jaarsveld - not a number-three in Test-matches, certainly. But from what I've seen before he should most certainly not be dumped on the scrapheap.
Dippennaar - more wasted chances from the king of wasted chances. How many more will he get, I have to wonder?
Tselokile - all I can say is, I hope and pray he doesn't play against England. Is AB De Villiers an opener? If so, stuff Herschelle and play him.
Ontong - err, a man who can bat (but not hold a place in a First-Class side on batting alone) and is a wholly part-time bowler has no place in Test-cricket.
Peterson - please, please, please, don't let him be picked for Test-cricket again...
Pollock - typical, struggling on pitches offering no lateral movement... for the umpteenth time.
Ntini - good economy, and a few more wickets than I'd have expected, but still, not a very good set of figures with regards penetration.
Z. de Bruyn - why the hell has it taken so long for this guy to play Test-cricket? He should be around for the next 5 or 6 years, at least. Finally, have we found the next Cronje? Apparently he even looks like him at the crease.
Amla - not a very forgiving introduction into Test-cricket, eh? Never mind, he should get plenty more chances. Might even play the First England Test. Certainly I'm looking forward to seeing him.

 

[wpdavid]

What's happened to Nel? He looked the part against WI 12 months ago, even if he did less well in NZ.

 

[Richard]

Had several different injuries... hopefully he'll be back to improve the spectacle of the England series.
He's had 3 one-day games, 2 good ones and 1 horrible one (9 overs for 57).

 

[V Reddy]

There's not a big difference between the spinning 'abilities' of Ontong or Peterson, they're both rubbish, Ontong offers slllllliiiiightly more with the bat. Adams is absolutely useless right now, he's lost form, confidence and probably fitness too. Not even playing as 1st spinner for his provincial side.....and he kinda blames it on Jennings' coaching in the SA A tour. So there's some good reasons not to pick him. Boje, well, those reasons are well documented.

What about Claude Henderson ? I only saw him play against Aus in Aus couple of years back but he looked pretty good there .

 

[JustTool]

And where's the hypocrisy once again ?

Can u believe: Bhajji for chucking and Gambhir for claiming a catch (I don't remember Slater being investigated when he practically mauled Umpire Venkat for the same thing - and Slater's catch was a clear bounce)

Bowling Chucker: Bhajji may face ICC
By: Debasish Datta
December 3, 2004

Kolkata: India’s two-Test series against South Africa may have finished with a victory at Eden Gardens, but it may well mark the start of an ugly controversy.

Mid Day has reliably learnt that the match referee Jeff Crowe may report Harbhajan Singh to the ICC for a suspected illegal action.

The umpires, Daryl Harper and Simon Taufel, believe Harbhajan straightens his arm to well over 15 degrees.

How they have determined the exact number of degrees is not clear, but this means that in their view, he even breaches the new ‘liberal’ recommendation of an ICC-appointed expert panel that says bowlers must be allowed 15 degrees of flexion.

Harbhajan won the Man of the Match award yesterday for his nine wickets in the Test. He was wrecker-in-chief in the second innings, claiming seven wickets for 87.

The match supervisors watched a video of his bowling and identified specific deliveries that they believe he has “chucked”. They will send their report to the ICC soon, sources said.

This is not the first time Bhajji has been accused of having a suspect action. He came under the ICC radar in ’98 and got his action ‘corrected’ under the guidance of former England spinner Fred Titmus. He hasn’t looked back since.

The match referee and the umpires also examined the dismissal of Shaun Pollock, who was caught by Gautam Gambhir at forward short-leg.

They are not convinced that the catch was taken cleanly and could question Gambhir for having appealed in the first place.

 

[honestbharani]

IDK how the umpires worked it out that he bends it over 15 degrees when it has been shown that he has done it before. But still, if they have that suspicion, then they are right in sending it to the ICC. But I don't think that catch by Gambhir did not carry. Slater said that he felt it carried and I feel the same way. I watched the repeat telecast of the match yesterday and I felt he had those two fingers of his underneath the ball. But it is too close to be called either way, which means that if they had gone to the 3rd umpire, Polly would have gotten the benefit of the doubt. But all this is pointless because Polly never nicked it in the first place. Plus, I am confused here, is there any rule in ICC that says a player cannot claim a catch if it had just (JUST) bounced in front of him? I have seen a lot of fielders appeal for such one bounce catches. Heck, Langer even removed the bails in Sri Lanka and Ponting and Hayden went up for a hitwicket appeal, and even then Langer did not say anything about what he had done. Is that not worth reporting?

 

[shaka]

The other thing with the Gambhir disputed catch off Pollock is that imo the ball did not touch the bat.