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***Official*** South Africa in England

Should Freddy be included in team for the second Test?


  • Total voters
    44

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Likely SA side:

Smith
McKenzie
Amla
Kallis
Prince
De Villiers
Boucher
Harris
Steyn
Nel
Ntini

Zondeki might come in for Nel, but Nel has more experience of English wickets, and Zondeki underperformed when he played for Warwickshire. Also a longish tail. Smith, McKenzie and Kallis are dependable, and if Prince and De Villiers can fire, then I give SA the series win, 2-1.
Can not see Morkel being dropped for Nel, especially considering he did bowl well in India. Although, Nel has the advantage of being an experienced county cricketer and knows the score over here. Zondeki shouldn’t get a look.

Big series for Prince, had a terrible series in India and it’s only a matter of time before Duminy gets into the test team. Vice-Captain or not he needs some runs.
 

Marius

International Debutant
Can not see Mørkel being dropped for Nel, especially considering he did bowl well in India. Although, Nel has the advantage of being an experienced county cricketer and knows the score over here. Zondeki shouldn’t get a look.

Big series for Prince, had a terrible series in India and it’s only a matter of time before Duminy gets into the test team. Vice-Captain or not he needs some runs.
Oh, yes, I actually forgot about Morkel. You're right, he will play ahead of Nel, and he's a decent bat. He'll bat at eight. I read an article a little while back saying Mickey Arthur wanted Morkel to fill the batting role Shaun Pollock used to fill for the side.

Pity Polly left, he could have made a big difference in England I think, and his performances in the IPL show he's still a class act.
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
Yeah he should be fit by Lords. I doubt he's too worried about form, he's been fantastic in all forms over the last year or so and last time he was at Lords hit a big double so he obviously likes the conditions. His technique has improved a lot since then so I'm not sure if Hoggard will still be as effective against him, he doesn't play around that front pad as much anymore.

Be interesting to see if Amla hits any runs, he reminds me of VVS Laxman and he's struggled in England. That said Azharuddin was similar too and he did pretty well in England. I really hope DeVilliers can build upon his success in India and turn into a top player; I really like him, he's a polite, talented young cricketer, something of a rarity these days. I think Prince is going to have a poor series, he'll be dropped hopefully in favour of Duminy who I reckon would be fantastic at no.5. Kallis will come expected to hit hundreds but his record in England isn't great.

Basically if the sun's out and SA have a fit side they should wipe the floor with England. However this is SA we're talking about...the King of Balls-Ups. Also England are good at scrapping and chipping away at home against superior teams. If it's overcast, which it may well be in July and the ball swings around it could be a much closer contest.

I'm backing Strauss, Pietersen and Vaughan to score runs. I think Collingwood and Bell aren't going to have much fun against the pace SA will bring and Cook might struggle a bit too, though being a lefty will help him a lot against the 3 right armers.

Sidebottom will have a solid if unspectacular series, anderson will take some wickets and go for a lot runs. Hoggard could be good if he plays and it swings. Broad is going to go for runs. Flintoff...may do well with the ball, perhaps even with the bat though he won't stay fit for all 4 tests. Ambrose will probably fail.

I think the series will depend on the success and fitness of the SA pace attack (Steyn, Morkel and Ntini).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah he should be fit by Lords. I doubt he's too worried about form, he's been fantastic in all forms over the last year or so and last time he was at Lords hit a big double so he obviously likes the conditions. His technique has improved a lot since then so I'm not sure if Hoggard will still be as effective against him, he doesn't play around that front pad as much anymore.
Smith's managed to get himself into other problems though - and possibly the fact he's found other ways to get out has meant we've not seen as much of the lbw-to-inswingers issues since 2004/05. From 2005/06 onwards he's been caught on the off-side all too often. And the silly little lapses in concentration - being caught-and-bowled by Jeetan Patel on that absurdly flat pitch at Newlands in 2005/06 probably the best example - which simply never used to happen have been all too present too.

If we could have the Smith of 2002-2003-2004 without the regular faulty off-side shots AND without the fallibility to the inswinger, then we'd have one hell of a player. But he's yet to eradicate both faults.
Be interesting to see if Amla hits any runs, he reminds me of VVS Laxman and he's struggled in England. That said Azharuddin was similar too and he did pretty well in England.
Azharuddin pretty well never faced what you'd regard as archetypal English conditions, though. In 1986 England were a shambles and not capable of bowling-out a boxing bag; in 1990 pitches were extremely flat and the weather very fine; and in 1996 the weather was again very fine and only 1 of the 3 pitches really seamed - the First Test.
Basically if the sun's out and SA have a fit side they should wipe the floor with England. However this is SA we're talking about...the King of Balls-Ups. Also England are good at scrapping and chipping away at home against superior teams. If it's overcast, which it may well be in July and the ball swings around it could be a much closer contest.
Not sure about that at all TBH, Steyn is a better swing-bowler than any of England's. Admittedly, though, he's pretty much the only swing-bowler in the SA party, with Ntini, Nel and Morkel being more seam-bowlers, whereas England in Sidebottom and possibly both Hoggard and Anderson have more than that.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Out of interest, is cloud cover really the thing that assists swing? I always thought it was more to do with humidity, but people seem to dwell on this whole overcast means swing thing. From my experience of playing and watching cricket, overcast conditions do not always encourage the ball to swing.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
As a general rule, the more overcast it is, the damper the air usually is. It doesn't always work that way, but that's why cloud cover is talked of. Damp and humid are the same thing as far as a cricket-ball is concerned - the damper the air, the more swing you'll get.

I've always said there's really no such thing as "swing-friendly" though, not insomuch as one thing allows swing, another doesn't - good bowlers can swing a good-quality cricket-ball in the correct condition under any circumstances. That's what the beauty of swing is - it takes "reliance" on other matters out of the equation if you can do it well. Trouble is, a great many bowlers can't - many bowlers have actions that sometimes mean the seam comes out right and sometimes doesn't; some cricket-balls are poor quality; and sometimes you just don't bowl well. The damper the air the better, though, obviously - and aside from the cloud-cover, time of day also impacts on this. A good breeze never hurts either, though this aspect is overrated, especially with the quickest bowlers - once you go over about 70mph the ball's going too fast for the wind to have any real effect.

The best swing-bowlers with a good cricket-ball and a good fielding team who shines the ball as they should will achieve swing anywhere and under any circumstances. But obviously, there's a preference for the UK, at night, under cloudy skies. That will cause chaos. And if you can swing the ball at 90mph under those circumstances your chances of wrecking a batting-line-up are considerably higher than your chances of not doing.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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These days though, perhaps due to global warming, there are more and more exceptions to that rule. Often it is overcast with little humidity to speak of.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Out of interest, is cloud cover really the thing that assists swing? I always thought it was more to do with humidity, but people seem to dwell on this whole overcast means swing thing. From my experience of playing and watching cricket, overcast conditions do not always encourage the ball to swing.
Never been a depth study into swing, IIRC. However, cloud cover, air flow and a layer of water vapour about an inch above the pitch are the main culprits, as identified by past players and experts.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
These days though, perhaps due to global warming, there are more and more exceptions to that rule. Often it is overcast with little humidity to speak of.
Certainly at least a couple of Aussies have observed that swing has been more difficult to come by in the last 7 years than it had been previously.

I can't say I've noticed much elsewhere - the subcontinent, for instance, has not all that often produced particularly humid or damp conditions. The UK and NZ are as damp as they've ever been. WI doesn't seem much different. SA neither.

The quality of balls has varied, however. Between the summers of 2001 and 2006 in this country, the quality of cricket-ball was deplorable; last summer it got better again, and that's continued this year.

More significantly still, I'm pretty sure both South Africa and West Indies changed from Duke to Kookaburra a decade or so ago. And it's well-known that the Kookaburra is not good for swing (or seam) relative to the Duke, though I've recently learnt that there are other balls sometimes used in Aus that are even worse.
 

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