***Official*** South Africa in England

[Richard]

I've been thinking how Key could get into the side - if you drop Collingwood (as barring a miracle in the 2nd inings seems inevitable) perhaps Key could be brought in at 3 and Vaughan moved to 6? I suppose the question would be how much would lose from Vaughan batting lower and would it undermine his position as captain?

I would have a lot more confidence in Key scoring runs at test level than Shah or Bopara.

That's actually an interesting one TBH.

Personally if you were to pick Key I'd go:
Strauss
Key\Cook
Cook\Key (I really don't think it matters, they're all openers and both have had some success at three, and obviously Key opening makes it right\left-hand, which is always worth considering)
Vaughan
Pietersen
Bell
Ambrose
Flintoff

It's certainly an interesting option. I'd not be at all against dropping Vaughan down from three at the current time, many good players have done such a thing as they've got older (Richie Richardson with Brian Lara is the one that always comes to mind - and IIRR Vivian Richards did the same with Richardson himself).

Three openers has worked many a time. Usually only as a short-term measure - but the only way is to try it and see.

I don't know that Key has a better case for Test selection than Shah and certainly if Shah missed-out again he'd be impossibly unfortunate. But I'd not want to make a call on who was more likely to succeed out of the two of them, and certainly I'd much prefer either (and Joyce) to Bopara.

 

[Richard]

THAT over was indeed on Edgbaston. This is the best he has bowled since then, save maybe at The Oval in the same series.

Maybe, but if so it's not all that far ahead of the spells in Mumbai and Multan.

 

[GIMH]

I was going to edit and mention the one in Multan, which was just awesome. Suppose it gets forgotten about because we never went on to win. No excuse for me ignoring Mumbai though, one of my favourite matches as I have said many times.

 

[Uppercut]

Don't agree with that TBH. You should never bat for the "well I might get a bad decision eventually" mentality.

Strauss batting as he currently is batting, and without treading on his stumps, should score plenty of Test runs. As long as he doesn't worry about mini-slumps like this and start trying to play differently purely because of strange dismissals like treading on his stumps, he'll be fine.

Well he could get a bad decision or a good ball, or make a defensive error. Strauss is a good batsman, and his game at the moment is excellent for sheilding the new ball from the middle order. But his lack of shots are keeping his scores down. I'm not saying he should change his mentality, but Cook's superior strike rate is the reason he's averaged considerably more in this series. When Cook gets a good ball, like the one from Nel, he's scored 60 or 70. Had Strauss got one at the same time in his innings he'd have been on under 50 for sure.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Just saw the Flintoff/Kallis battle, and if Brett Lee or Glenn McGrath carried on like Freddie did when Kallis was given not out - there'd be an uproar. Hardly a peep on this board from what I can see (could've missed something).

Not saying I'd want him to go - it's that sort of passion that makes test cricket special. Just tremendous double standards.

Great ball to remove Kallis, though.

 

[Richard]

Well he could get a bad decision or a good ball, or make a defensive error. Strauss is a good batsman, and his game at the moment is excellent for sheilding the new ball from the middle order. But his lack of shots are keeping his scores down. I'm not saying he should change his mentality, but Cook's superior strike rate is the reason he's averaged considerably more in this series. When Cook gets a good ball, like the one from Nel, he's scored 60 or 70. Had Strauss got one at the same time in his innings he'd have been on under 50 for sure.

Disagree, as I say. We've seen what happens to Strauss when he tries to play shots in 2006 and 2007 - he just gets himself out without either shielding the middle-order from the new-ball or scoring much himself.

Strauss is playing at the current time in the only way that will work for him, and I'm much happier to see him playing that way than trying to drive regularly.

 

[Richard]

Just saw the Flintoff/Kallis battle, and if Brett Lee or Glenn McGrath carried on like Freddie did when Kallis was given not out - there'd be an uproar. Hardly a peep on this board from what I can see (could've missed something).

Not saying I'd want him to go - it's that sort of passion that makes test cricket special. Just tremendous double standards.

Not really. Flintoff just has a cleaner record than McGrath or Lee did and does.

In any case, most people only go on about players carrying-on when they start complaining about correct decisions, not blatantly wrong ones like that.

 

[GIMH]

Just saw the Flintoff/Kallis battle, and if Brett Lee or Glenn McGrath carried on like Freddie did when Kallis was given not out - there'd be an uproar. Hardly a peep on this board from what I can see (could've missed something).

Not saying I'd want him to go - it's that sort of passion that makes test cricket special. Just tremendous double standards.

Great ball to remove Kallis, though.

So true

 

[Jakester1288]

That's actually an interesting one TBH.

Personally if you were to pick Key I'd go:
Strauss
Key\Cook
Cook\Key (I really don't think it matters, they're all openers and both have had some success at three, and obviously Key opening makes it right\left-hand, which is always worth considering)
Vaughan
Pietersen
Bell
Ambrose
Flintoff

It's certainly an interesting option. I'd not be at all against dropping Vaughan down from three at the current time, many good players have done such a thing as they've got older (Richie Richardson with Brian Lara is the one that always comes to mind - and IIRR Vivian Richards did the same with Richardson himself).

Three openers has worked many a time. Usually only as a short-term measure - but the only way is to try it and see.

I don't know that Key has a better case for Test selection than Shah and certainly if Shah missed-out again he'd be impossibly unfortunate. But I'd not want to make a call on who was more likely to succeed out of the two of them, and certainly I'd much prefer either (and Joyce) to Bopara.

Flintoff > Prior > Ambrose. I rate Key, and would bat him at three. My batting line up would look something like this:

Strauss
Cook
Key
Bell/Collingwood
Pietersen
Vaughan
Flintoff
Prior
__________________________________

I don't think Vaughan would be in the line up on current form, but being the captain keeps him there. And we can't make Freddie the captain, so we have no choice but to keep him to be perfectly honest, hence me batting him at number 6.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Not really. Flintoff just has a cleaner record than McGrath or Lee did and does.

In any case, most people only go on about players carrying-on when they start complaining about correct decisions, not blatantly wrong ones like that.

Nah - it's more that Flintoff can do no wrong in the eyes of people and outbursts like that will always go unnoticed.

 

[GIMH]

DWTA, he has got plenty of stick on these boards for various things, especially in the 06-07 season.

To me it seems that whenever Flintoff does something good there are plenty of people complaining that the likes of me think he can do no wrong

 

[Richard]

Nah - it's more that Flintoff can do no wrong in the eyes of people and outbursts like that will always go unnoticed.

It isn't really, as mentioned. McGrath and Lee have been regarded as a little unsportsmanlike for various reasons at various points in their careers. Flintoff virtually never has.

 

[Richard]

Sidebottom gets Prince early!

 

[GIMH]

Gone!!!

 

[GIMH]

Great stuff, now we get to bowl the new ball at the tail. Excellent stuff, even if it wasn't a great ball

 

[Richard]

Probably should indeed be another slip there.

 

[GIMH]

Close...3rd slip would have swallowed it, seems the commentators agree with me

 

[Richard]

I'm less uptight about these slips not being straight in a line with no gully than some are, but there should be more than 3 men in the cordon IMO. This ball is still doing plenty.

 

[GIMH]

Desperate to see Flintoff grab another here ITBT

 

[Richard]

Almost want Sidebottom to clean-up the rest TBH.

Would demonstrate once more that you don't neccessarily have to take five-fors to bowl extraordinarily well.