**Official** South Africa in England 2012

[marc71178]

Steyn is the all time best bowler if you believe in this analysis.

A Dale amongst Goliaths | Cricket News | Cricbuzz.com

I will never believe any analysis that classes him as the greatest of all time at this stage (or in all in likelihood at any stage)

 

[Arachnodouche]

^But I doubt anybody other than English fans rank him better or even in the same league as Steyn. Similar skill level undoubtedly, but Steyn has the mindset and ferocity to take him to greatness. Anderson is and I'm afraid will only ever remain very good.

Plus he doesn't have a chest.

 

[kingkallis]

I will never believe any analysis that classes him as the greatest of all time at this stage (or in all in likelihood at any stage)

And why not? He is taking wickets on roads of subcontinents and nearly everywhere else. His record speaks for himself and its something we have witnessed in last few years. No other current bowler comes closer to him.

 

[marc71178]

Greatest of All Time is an incredible title - to bestow it on someone halfway through their career is automatically a misnomer as you never know how his career is going to go from here.

 

[benchmark00]

Do you think we should use snicko in the UDRS?

Do you think Kohli is a dickhead but like him anyway?

 

[Spark]

That article doesn't actually ever say he's the greatest of all time though. It's a statistical analysis, and doesn't really try to draw any big conclusions at the end.

 

[Manee]

The Steyn-Anderson comparisons are annoying, especially when I read that Steyn somehow "proved himself" to be better than Anderson on the basis of 1 test match.

Regardless of what happened in this test match there is a massive gulf in their records with one averaging 23 and the other 30...so clearly Anderson isn't in Steyn's league as an overall bowler. If we were considering who is the better bowler in English conditions then it becomes more interesting.

Have to say it's bizarre how the struggling Morkel takes his wickets slightly more cheaply than the consistent Anderson. It's a mystery how Anderson rarely bowls badly but has only a solid record rather than a great one.

I expected England to be favourites at the Oval as it's a flat surface and I believed their bowlers to be good enough to take wickets in any conditions (with Swann against Tahir), but their batsman as very vulnerable on helpful wickets. So I thought flat English (not subcontinental) conditions would be an advantage, but obviously I got that completely wrong.

In hindsight the clues were there in the West Indies series. Once the new ball was over and the weak top 4 West Indians were hopelessly exposed, the middle order seemed to find batting very easy. Chanderpaul, Samuels, Sammy, Ramdin and even Tino Best made runs, so when you take a much stronger SA line up that only lost Alivro Peterson to the new ball, then you can see why they really cashed in.

Now I'm predicting a South African win with Philander to be MOM at Headingley.

Since Anderson started bowling well, his record has reflected that. His overall record is marred by a poor start to his Test career. Check this out, his record since beginning of 2010:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[Ruckus]

His recent record is very good when compared to most bowlers, but still an average of 25 isn't amazing or anything, especially when compared to people like Steyn who have a career average less than that.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Steyn has proven that he is an ATG fast bowler, but I would never even consider him as the greatest of all time as long as he has that crap 30 average against lefties. Needs to do much better if he wants my vote (even in that case I will be biased and say Waqar )

 

[Ruckus]

Yeah no chance Steyn is the greatest fast bowler of all time. Steyn's SR is a bit of mystery to me as well...I mean you'd expect it to be good (in the order of 45-50 perhaps) but not the best ever by a decent margin (for bowlers with x wickets etc.)...that's crazy.

 

[Valer]

I will never believe any analysis that classes him as the greatest of all time at this stage (or in all in likelihood at any stage)

Yeah no chance Steyn is the greatest fast bowler of all time. Steyn's SR is a bit of mystery to me as well...I mean you'd expect it to be good (in the order of 45-50 perhaps) but not the best ever by a decent margin (for bowlers with x wickets etc.)...that's crazy.

Batting SR has gone up, hence bowling SR has to go down (for a fixed average).

As for Anderson here is a list of players as close to anderson as he is to styen this decade.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[wpdavid]

Since Anderson started bowling well, his record has reflected that. His overall record is marred by a poor start to his Test career. Check this out, his record since beginning of 2010:

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

I'd suggest that any meaningful analysis of Anderson should go back before 2010. Probably early 2008 when he became first choice in NZ. Or maybe even to the Indian series in 2007.

 

[Manee]

I'd suggest that any meaningful analysis of Anderson should go back before 2010. Probably early 2008 when he became first choice in NZ. Or maybe even to the Indian series in 2007.

The point I was making is that this recent brilliant Anderson has not been the constant under-performer that people think. With that, my filter works fine, imo.

 

[wpdavid]

The point I was making is that this recent brilliant Anderson has not been the constant under-performer that people think. With that, my filter works fine, imo.

Yeah - I won't pretend to be losing sleep over it either way. Where I'm coming from is that over the last few years I heard or read about Anderson's 'current' form on which he should truly be evaluated move forward from 2007 to 2008 to 2010. I'm just waiting for GIMH to point out that the recent test at the Oval shouldn't be included because it didn't truly reflect his current qualities.

EDIT
That's better.

 

[GIMH]

You've got a point - do the filter again minus the Oval Test, Manee

 

[Plumbinfront]

Steyn vs Anderson is an interesting comparison. Over their entire careers it's as much as a no contest as Kallis vs Vaughan. Even on current form I'd take Steyn in a blink over any other bowler in world cricket, especially if the surface is flat and there's nothing in it for the quicks. Steyn demolished a full strength Indian side in India, on a featherbed, something only true greats like Donald and McGrath have done in recent memory. Moreover, on current form or otherwise, Anderson is not really much better than Khan or the like. Steyn is miles better.

In English conditions it gets more interesting. Anderson has the better record, obviously, but Steyn has bowled to only English batsmen in England which is far harder than bowling to a cross section of other batting line ups in England.

 

[Arachnodouche]

aaah but the Steyn of today is a markedly better version than the one that visited the old country four years ago....and so it goes...bears out in the first Test stats too

 

[Pup Clarke]

aaah but the Steyn of today is a markedly better version than the one that visited the old country four years ago

Eh, no.

 

[Stumpcam]

Blah, blah blah who's best Steyn or Anderson? Who cares - cricket is a team game.

It's the team's sum of its parts that is important, not necessarily one player versus another.

Currently SA is no. 3 and England is No. 1. Whether that will be the same at the end of the series remains to be seen.

Chill dudes.

 

[amanuensis]

Blah, blah blah who's best Steyn or Anderson? Who cares - cricket is a team game.

It's the team's sum of its parts that is important, not necessarily one player versus another.

Currently SA is no. 3 and England is No. 1. Whether that will be the same at the end of the series remains to be seen.

Chill dudes.

The only question now is whether England will end the series at 2 or 3 ().