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***Official*** South Africa In Australia

Ernest

U19 12th Man
Always been my primary criteria for deification TBH.

It certainly does seem that he divided opinion as a person, though there are plenty who speak of him with warm regard and affection to counter those critical of him. He was the kind of man, from what I can gather, who by his nature wasn’t one to leave people sitting on the fence. And nor did that bother him in the slightest.
Nope that kind of single minded dedication to whatever he was doing at the time made him the genius that he was.

I wonder how people will talk of Ricky after he is gone? Or will they talk about him at all?
I think he's shaping up as the next Greg Chappell.. all the results in the world but none of the respect..
 

Savvy Saffer

Cricket Spectator
And even to further the irony.. Larwood copied his action from Jack Gregory.. so it's a chicken and an egg argument really.. Larwoods action is purer to my eye.. much more upright than Ray who really did bowl with a very round arm.. must have really helped his outswinger..

Donald has publically said that he expects Steyne to be a far better bowler than him.. can't remember Donald getting as much swing but boy could he chuck em down!! It's exciting to see the younger fast men now all we need is Jerome Taylor to add another 5kmh to his speed gun rating and I would be very happy..
I remember seeing Jerome Taylor one of the Stanford matches bowling a full over at 150 kph + peaking at 153 kph. He is quite pacy! I expect him to come to the party within the next year or two.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Stuck the front page of the Herald up on my door today, stunned to see the man Smith getting such high praise in Aus, and thats a testament to the man.. Whilst he's no legend yet, I feel we've found a replacement for Hansie, and a man capable of going on to do bigger and better things
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Bollinger is well ahead of Noffke in the pecking order; I've been through it before and I shan't go through it again.
Well, i'd like to hear your reasons.

They are different type of bowlers, that offer different things to the bowling attack. Thats clear.

I'd have Noffke in my best Australian team for the SA tour (subject to fitness & retaining the form of last season), in a 4-man attack is because he along with Clark will be the provide the control for Ponting. With Johnson & Siddle the attacking options.
 

Woodster

International Captain
I think SA's "miracle win" in the first test is a bit overstated. They cantered to a score of 400 against a fairly weak bowling attack on a pitch that hadn't broken up in the slightest, and was probably at an easier pace to bat on than it had been on day one. Why does everyone get wet over quality batting on a pretty flat pitch just because it comes in the fourth innings?
Everyone gets "wet" because chasing over 400 exceptionally rarely ends in success for the chasing side (as history suggests). It's not just the pitch, although a flat one is certainly preferable, the pressure of the chase is generally enough providing the bowlers don't choke. Yes I agree it ain't the best attack in the world, even so, I'm pretty sure worse attacks have won games for teams with a lower target set on a similar pitch simply due to the situation.

Contributions from all SA's top 6, when they were desperatley needed (barring McKenzie), including a half century from a man on debut, means they deserve all the credit they got, imo.
 

Uppercut

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Everyone gets "wet" because chasing over 400 exceptionally rarely ends in success for the chasing side (as history suggests). It's not just the pitch, although a flat one is certainly preferable, the pressure of the chase is generally enough providing the bowlers don't choke. Yes I agree it ain't the best attack in the world, even so, I'm pretty sure worse attacks have won games for teams with a lower target set on a similar pitch simply due to the situation.

Contributions from all SA's top 6, when they were desperatley needed (barring McKenzie), including a half century from a man on debut, means they deserve all the credit they got, imo.
There really isn't as much of a precedent as you'd think. Firstly, in past eras pitches rarely held up so well. Secondly, scoring rates meant that you'd need almost two days to chase down 400, and the opposition barely had enough time to set such a total unless you failed really badly in the first innings- or were dominated by a quality bowling attack. So if you're looking for tests where

a) a team is set 400~ with enough time left to chase it (the interpretation of this will have changed over time)
b) the bowling attack is weaker than Australia's
c) the batting lineup is as good as South Africa's
d) the pitch was completely flawless and excellent for batting on, like the one in Perth

you might be looking longer than you'd think.

I don't mean to take anything away from South Africa's batsmen. But it's made out that they were up **** creek without a paddle and somehow scraped their way to victory. They batted very well and made a good total on a flat deck against a weak-ish attack. Oh, and didn't randomly choke under pressure, although i don't see why they would after years of chasing in LO cricket throughout their careers. Changing the number next to the name of the innings doesn't make batting infinitely harder. It makes a slight difference to the mental side of the game, but that's it.
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well, i'd like to hear your reasons.

They are different type of bowlers, that offer different things to the bowling attack. Thats clear.

I'd have Noffke in my best Australian team for the SA tour (subject to fitness & retaining the form of last season), in a 4-man attack is because he along with Clark will be the provide the control for Ponting. With Johnson & Siddle the attacking options.
A) He's injured more than Watson these days
B) He's clearly not in Ponting or the Selectors good books (see the hissy fit Noffke (rightly or wrongly) threw about not being picked last year)

Not sure of what Vic would have said, but the 2 above are central to why he isn't higher up in the pecking order.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
A) He's injured more than Watson these days
B) He's clearly not in Ponting or the Selectors good books (see the hissy fit Noffke (rightly or wrongly) threw about not being picked last year)

Not sure of what Vic would have said, but the 2 above are central to why he isn't higher up in the pecking order.
Bingo, especially with regards to the second, which (pardon the smugness) I informed the forum. He, Neilsen and the heirarchy don't get on, after he cracked the sads in the Windies.
 

Briony

International Debutant
Stuck the front page of the Herald up on my door today, stunned to see the man Smith getting such high praise in Aus, and thats a testament to the man.. Whilst he's no legend yet, I feel we've found a replacement for Hansie, and a man capable of going on to do bigger and better things

Hansie, while obviously having tactical acumen, surely doesn't have a strong place in SA hearts after disgracing his nation not too long after they had been readmitted to international cricket.
 

Corli

U19 Cricketer
Hansie, while obviously having tactical acumen, surely doesn't have a strong place in SA hearts after disgracing his nation not too long after they had been readmitted to international cricket.
Pretty sure he means Hansie before his fall from grace. Hansie was seen as a very inspirational leader, a proper hero and a sporting icon, while still being the type of bloke you'd have round to your house for a braai. I don't think Smith is being idolized quite the way Hansie was yet (which is probably a good thing), but Smith certainly has moved beyond being just a very good captain and player.
 

howardj

International Coach
Hansie, while obviously having tactical acumen, surely doesn't have a strong place in SA hearts after disgracing his nation not too long after they had been readmitted to international cricket.
You'd be surprised, even post BribeGate, about the warm regard in which he is held in South Africa.
 

Burgey

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Stuck the front page of the Herald up on my door today, stunned to see the man Smith getting such high praise in Aus, and thats a testament to the man.. Whilst he's no legend yet, I feel we've found a replacement for Hansie, and a man capable of going on to do bigger and better things
Don't be so surprised. He copped it here last time fort eh commetns he made more than anything else.

For all the **** that gets put on them, a lot of cricket supporters are pretty gracious here when they appreciate the efforts of other sides or individuals who perform well here. Vaughan was received very well out here in the Ashes series when he scored all those runs, Flintoff was a respected opponent last time England were here and the crowds gave Tendulkar nothing less than a valedictory tour last summer.

Even before the 4th innings in Sydney, Smith had pretty much won the Australian public over with his graciousness in victory. I suppose many would have contrasted his public persona this time around to the last, and thought that the fella had grown up.
 

Burgey

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McDonald did a great job, but is he up to test standard as a number 6? Haven't seen enough of him to know. If it's a turner, would someone like Marcus North be better value?

Thought McDonald did a great job though.
 

IndGunner

First Class Debutant
Anyone going to the G tommorow for the 20/20?

i'd say Aust to win unless gibbs does some crazy **** and SaF can bowl a good first 5 overs.
 

pup11

International Coach
McDonald did a great job, but is he up to test standard as a number 6? Haven't seen enough of him to know. If it's a turner, would someone like Marcus North be better value?

Thought McDonald did a great job though.
I frankly don't think McDonald is anything more than a good handy FC cricketer, he was good with the ball because he didn't try to do anything fancy, and just kept bowling at the stumps, leaving rest on the pitch to do, but his bowling still can be considered handy as the 5th bowler, but his batting though is the real problem, i don't think he is good enough,to bat in the Aussie top-order, so AFAIC, good on him fo having done such a good job in the SCG test, but he definitely isn't a long term option.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I frankly don't think McDonald is anything more than a good handy FC cricketer, he was good with the ball because he didn't try to do anything fancy, and just kept bowling at the stumps, leaving rest on the pitch to do, but his bowling still can be considered handy as the 5th bowler, but his batting though is the real problem, i don't think he is good enough,to bat in the Aussie top-order, so AFAIC, good on him fo having done such a good job in the SCG test, but he definitely isn't a long term option.
I concur. However I do believe he fits our current team balance better than a specialist number 6. We need to take 20 wickets and we haven't done that all summer. Having that extra bowling option is valuable.

I however think that with Clark back in the side that it would be a better bet to pick a D Hussey or B Hodge in his place.
 

pup11

International Coach
I concur. However I do believe he fits our current team balance better than a specialist number 6. We need to take 20 wickets and we haven't done that all summer. Having that extra bowling option is valuable.

I however think that with Clark back in the side that it would be a better bet to pick a D Hussey or B Hodge in his place.
Dussey seriously has a good case and i think with his agressive stroke-play he can prove to be a very good option for Australia at no.6, but i think one can't really kick Symonds out of the equation either, he has had an exceptional 2 years in test cricket and i think he deserves to atleast play in the test series in South Africa (fitness permitting), but again had Watto is my prefered long term option, and as soon as he is fit, he would be my pick to replace Symonds or whoever is keeping that slot warm for him.

In other news, Ronchi replaces Haddin for Twenty20s
So the Proteas now have one assured walking wicket in both the T20s...
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Bingo, especially with regards to the second, which (pardon the smugness) I informed the forum. He, Neilsen and the heirarchy don't get on, after he cracked the sads in the Windies.
God damnit. The next few years with these selectors, really is going to be painstaking.
 

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