***Official*** South Africa In Australia

[Rant0r]

i gave SA a big big chance before seeing what's going on against the bangladeshis, steyn is the absolute key, but i fear they may go down again

on steyn, how long do you reckon you guys would last against him ? i give myself 2 balls max

 

[Richard]

Well he's hardly tearing viciously through batsmen in this series. And unlike NZ the South Africans know which way round to hold the bat.

I think that's a bit harsh TBH. Pretty well all the top-order NZ wickets were gifted (obviously O'Brien and Martin are no use and that was patently clear) and it wasn't like they were looking clueless - they just played bad shots, either hit balls in the air that should've gone on the ground or played balls that should've been left.

Only Flynn of those whose batting ability is notable was genuinely got out by excellent bowling. And any fool can get O'Brien and Martin out - I'd be exceedingly disappointed if they lasted long against my bowling. And Southee is highly dangerous if you pitch up to him without any movement but has yet to demonstrate any skill against short stuff. A bit like Andy Caddick.

 

[Richard]

on steyn, how long do you reckon you guys would last against him ? i give myself 2 balls max

It'd depend how long it took him to aim one at the stumps. If he didn't hit the stumps he'd never get me out as I'd not have time to get any bat on the ball. However, I'd be exceptionally fortunate to hit one that was on the stumps.

 

[Langeveldt]

Robbie Peterson must be loving the disadvantaged player law.

Not as much as the Aussie batsmen will if Zondeki gets a gig

 

[Rant0r]

I think that's a bit harsh TBH. Pretty well all the top-order NZ wickets were gifted (obviously O'Brien and Martin are no use and that was patently clear) and it wasn't like they were looking clueless - they just played bad shots, either hit balls in the air that should've gone on the ground or played balls that should've been left.

Only Flynn of those whose batting ability is notable was genuinely got out by excellent bowling. And any fool can get O'Brien and Martin out - I'd be exceedingly disappointed if they lasted long against my bowling. And Southee is highly dangerous if you pitch up to him without any movement but has yet to demonstrate any skill against short stuff. A bit like Andy Caddick.

how he didn't see the short stuff coming today will baffle me for days, fast bowling to tailenders isn't rocket science, especially lee and johnson fast bowling, short short short full short short full

 

[Richard]

It's all well and good seeing it coming, doesn't help you in terms of having the shots to deal with it.

Southee just can't pull and hook. However, he can swing through and accross the line to full balls very effectively.

 

[Rant0r]

or duck and weave, he just looked to me like he didn't even consider that it was coming, completely took his eye off it as well.

spose i'm discrediting what was a spot on bouncer as well though.

 

[Richard]

or duck and weave, he just looked to me like he didn't even consider that it was coming, completely took his eye off it as well.

As I say, he's just a poor player of the short ball. I've seen him do that against the short ball before and doubtless he'll do it many times again in future unless he does some serious work on that aspect.

And frankly, I'd prefer he concentrate on keeping his bowling moving in the right direction.

 

[Rant0r]

everyone has to bat

but i could babble on about the importance of holding up an end to much less players than southee, such as the 2 behind him, it's just a little dissapointing from a player who looks to have a little potential in that area... martin and o'brien are a lost cause

 

[tooextracool]

Yea but both times it was massive innings from the big fella that put an end to their captaincies.

Still. Won't happen. I'll be supporting SA massively through both series though.

In Hussains case at least Smith's double didnt really have much say in his decision, which would have come regardless. England didnt even lose the test match at Edgbaston after which Hussain resigned.

One would argue the same case in Vaughan who had considered quitting all the way back in NZ in 2007/08, but in his case there is no doubt that had England won the game at Edgbaston he would have stayed on as captain.

 

[Uppercut]

In Hussains case at least Smith's double didnt really have much say in his decision, which would have come regardless. England didnt even lose the test match at Edgbaston after which Hussain resigned.

Dunno, the successive double centuries can't have helped considering Hussain calling him "Greg Smith" at the toss at the first test and generally trying to treat him with little respect. It's hard to captain a team with that much egg on your face.

 

[Richard]

Well, TBF it was more a 277-and-85 double.

The 259 came after Hussain's resignation. Amittedly 251 of those were scored after Hussain dropped a sitter though.

BTW, much as Hussain was looking to play the old "out-pysching" with Smith pre-Edgbaston-'03, he genuinely forgot his name and while "whatsisname" (which is what he called him) isn't the most polite thing to be calling someone, it wasn't deliberate nor part of the ploy.

However, Smith's crushing batting had nothing to do with Hussain's resignation. He said that he felt he'd lost the team - he sensed the moment he walked into the dressing-room on the first day that it was no longer "his" team. Times had changed.

 

[Uppercut]

Well, TBF it was more a 277-and-85 double.

The 259 came after Hussain's resignation. Amittedly 251 of those were scored after Hussain dropped a sitter though.

BTW, much as Hussain was looking to play the old "out-pysching" with Smith pre-Edgbaston-'03, he genuinely forgot his name and while "whatsisname" (which is what he called him) isn't the most polite thing to be calling someone, it wasn't deliberate nor part of the ploy.

However, Smith's crushing batting had nothing to do with Hussain's resignation. He said that he felt he'd lost the team - he sensed the moment he walked into the dressing-room on the first day that it was no longer "his" team. Times had changed.

Yeah, was watching an interview during the SA series where he said that. Anyway, for the purposes of Smith's reputation, the fine detail doesn't matter a great deal. I don't think Ponting will go during or after the SA series, it's too close to an Ashes tour. If he was going to go, after the India tour was the time to do it.

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah the end result when Hussain resigned was that the series was in the balance at 0-0 when he resigned. As much as the weight of runs from Smith may have affected England, at the end of the day it was still a fairly comfortable draw on a flat pitch that really could not have made much of a difference in his decision.

 

[Rant0r]

at this stage it would take something dramatic for ponting to not be captain until he retires, it's been a long time since a captain was forced out due to performance, and auctralia don't have a history of ex captains in the team

the last skipper to leave under such circumstances was kim hughes all those years ago, and he never made it back, apart from him i can't think of any ex captain's in the team apart from vice captains and fill ins. Did chapelli continue on after he quit the captaincy ?

if so we're talking 30 odd years, during which time there's been probably 7-8 aussie captains max, and countless indian, pakistan and english skippers, most of whom remained in the team

 

[Spikey]

Did chapelli continue on after he quit the captaincy ?

Pretty sure he did. Going futher back, I think Simpson contiuned after handing it over.

 

[Rant0r]

Pretty sure he did. Going futher back, I think Simpson contiuned after handing it over.

that makes it about 40 years then, pretty sure he quit late 60's then came back during WSC

 

[Richard]

Pretty sure he did. Going futher back, I think Simpson contiuned after handing it over.

We discussed this a little while ago - Ian Chappell had one series post-captaincy, handed over to his brother for the 1975/76 series against West Indies. He did actually play briefly again post-WSC, but that only happened because of WSC - he'd retired before then.

Simpson handed over the captaincy for the last 2 Tests of what should have been his career. Although he too came back (as captain) during WSC, fully 10 years into Test retirement.

It's always going to take a remarkably good batsman and a captain who's clearly not the best available to break this trend, and Ponting fits the bill perfectly. Hopefully once it's broken now, the silly thing might never recur again. I wouldn't want to bet on either it happening or the break in the trend being long-term though.

 

[Matt79]

Having a captain and sticking with him has worked better for us than rotating it around has worked for teams that have tried that approach tbf.

Will be interesting to see how SA do against Krejza if he plays - he might bob up with a few wickets if they get too excited, esp. with spin not being a traditional strong suit for the SA batsmen.

Looking forward to seeing McKenzie and Amla, and who knows, maybe Smith in form, having a go against the Aussie bowling attack at home. If their recent form stands up, and Kallis is his normal self, the Aussies will have a hard time of it. Hoping the SA bowling attack avoids the curse that seems to strike most visitors - don't want Steyn hurting himself day 1 of the first test.

 

[Precambrian]

Surprised at the lack of activity in this thread

SA coach Mickey Arthur turns to India Coach Gary Kirsten for tips to beat Australia

http://blogs.cricinfo.com/thebuzz/archives/2008/12/arthur_asks_kirsten_for_tips_o.php

Gary Kirsten has joined the list of experts with success over Australia to be tapped for knowledge by the South Africa coach Mickey Arthur, who starts a three-Test series against the world champions on December 17. Kirsten, the India coach who guided the 2-0 win over Australia in November, is part of a small group of men Arthur has spoken to that includes Duncan Fletcher, who lifted the Ashes with England in 2005, and Jake White, the 2007 Rugby World Cup-winning mentor.

Fletcher is now a consultant with the team after Arthur’s plan to have John Buchanan as an advisor failed because of the previous Australia coach’s links with the Kolkata Knight Riders. "I have had a chat with Gary … and he reinforced that our ideas were right," Arthur said in the Sydney Morning Herald.

"And Fletch, after just his first six days with us, has already convinced me that we made a very good decision in bringing him into the group. We have been looking to speak to anyone who has enjoyed success over the Australians, and Fletch has provided us with some very interesting ideas."