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Official Rugby Thread
- Thread starter KennyD
- Start date
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
When was the last time Beale played 10?
Australia just won the Super Rugby final with Foley at first 5, but somehow McKenzie thinks he knows better than the Warratahs coach and thinks the chemistry of the Warratah's 10,12,13 is not optimal in international rugby.
But wait this is the year before a world cup, and teams are tinkering with their line ups trying to find the optimal combinations...I get that...but do we really need to play players out of position?
At the end of the day I am making a storm in a tea cup. Beale will go ok on the weekend and be solid. He will not be amazing and he will not be useless.
But if he had've played at 12 then maybe he could have been a match winner instead of just being solid at 10.
Australia just won the Super Rugby final with Foley at first 5, but somehow McKenzie thinks he knows better than the Warratahs coach and thinks the chemistry of the Warratah's 10,12,13 is not optimal in international rugby.
But wait this is the year before a world cup, and teams are tinkering with their line ups trying to find the optimal combinations...I get that...but do we really need to play players out of position?
At the end of the day I am making a storm in a tea cup. Beale will go ok on the weekend and be solid. He will not be amazing and he will not be useless.
But if he had've played at 12 then maybe he could have been a match winner instead of just being solid at 10.
dermo
International Vice-Captain
super rugby is very different to test rugby and besides, the way beale was used at 12 for the waratahs was a lot closer to the way a 10 plays than a 12.
most of the waratahs attack came from beale and i would say at least 50% of his touches were at first receiver
as long as he plays direct as he has all year for the waratahs and the times he came on for the wallabies against the french, he'll be fine
most of the waratahs attack came from beale and i would say at least 50% of his touches were at first receiver
as long as he plays direct as he has all year for the waratahs and the times he came on for the wallabies against the french, he'll be fine
ripper868
International Coach
KB will be fine. The worries for us is McCabe on the wing, he definitely has the heart and won't shirk any work on Savea or whoever he matches up on, I'm just wondering if he has the pace. Horne will be fine, his wing play this year has been better than his centre play during his whole career. AAC at 13 will be more telling than you think, he is our best 13, daylight second, then Kuridrani - and Kuridrani is good, AAC is just that much better that daylight still seperates them. the 13 Channel is very difficult to read correctly in attack and defence, this is what has made Conrad Smith a world class 13, his ability to read the game. AAC has this in spades, Kuridrani does not. yet.
Hurricane you are correct with regards to working towards the World Cup, we know what Foley delivers at #10, he is reliable and assured. Beale we don't know yet what he offers at 10, we know he has flair, creativity and attacking nous, what we want to find out is has he grown the temperament for the position in the last few years, or will he get overwhelmed. If he is overwhelmed on comes Foley. In the end it's semi-academic. Quade Cooper will walk back into the 10 position once fit, he is still our best matchwinning #10. And Link loves him
I may be talking out my arse, bit doped up on drugs fighting off the flu after 3 hours sleep last night.
Hurricane you are correct with regards to working towards the World Cup, we know what Foley delivers at #10, he is reliable and assured. Beale we don't know yet what he offers at 10, we know he has flair, creativity and attacking nous, what we want to find out is has he grown the temperament for the position in the last few years, or will he get overwhelmed. If he is overwhelmed on comes Foley. In the end it's semi-academic. Quade Cooper will walk back into the 10 position once fit, he is still our best matchwinning #10. And Link loves him
I may be talking out my arse, bit doped up on drugs fighting off the flu after 3 hours sleep last night.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
15 Ben Smith, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith;
8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (captain), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.
Thoughts:
a) This is the strongest running back line we've fielded all year. Thank god Ben Smith is finally getting the nod at fullback over Dagg. That does, however, bring a slight weakness in clearing punts, with Cruden, Nonu and Smith not having the raking punt of Dagg or Barrett.
b) The props are a genuine weak point now. Dane Coles is also not a very good scrummager, so I could see us getting rolled in the scrums.
c) 4 through 8 is incredibly strong. McCaw's lack of mobility these days is nicely balanced by Whitelock and Retallick in the locks. Still, I bet we'll see Sam Cane replace McCaw relatively early in the second half.
d) Love watching Kaino. Favourite AB after Tana. That said, I think Luatua will also have a good game off the bench. He struggles against the more physical forward backs (which Kain did too, earlier in his career before turning into a beast), but I think he might cause havoc in the second half.
8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (captain), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.
Thoughts:
a) This is the strongest running back line we've fielded all year. Thank god Ben Smith is finally getting the nod at fullback over Dagg. That does, however, bring a slight weakness in clearing punts, with Cruden, Nonu and Smith not having the raking punt of Dagg or Barrett.
b) The props are a genuine weak point now. Dane Coles is also not a very good scrummager, so I could see us getting rolled in the scrums.
c) 4 through 8 is incredibly strong. McCaw's lack of mobility these days is nicely balanced by Whitelock and Retallick in the locks. Still, I bet we'll see Sam Cane replace McCaw relatively early in the second half.
d) Love watching Kaino. Favourite AB after Tana. That said, I think Luatua will also have a good game off the bench. He struggles against the more physical forward backs (which Kain did too, earlier in his career before turning into a beast), but I think he might cause havoc in the second half.
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ripper868
International Coach
That is a sensational backline. IF both sides come to play, and the forwards get out of the way, this could be a brilliant match of running rugby.
I give the ABs backline 9.8/10 - the Wallabies a 9.2.
The Forwards about even. Hooper nullifes McCaw and vice versa, the locks are similar, probably an edge to NZ in the lineout. Front Row battle will be interesting, neither can claim real dominance over the other, Charles perhaps a step below Coles. Read v Palu and Fardy v Kaino will be brilliant battles. Read takes a points decision v Palue and Fardy v Kaino will depend on which version of boths turns up, again a points decision to Kaino probably.
Cant wait for Saturday.
I give the ABs backline 9.8/10 - the Wallabies a 9.2.
The Forwards about even. Hooper nullifes McCaw and vice versa, the locks are similar, probably an edge to NZ in the lineout. Front Row battle will be interesting, neither can claim real dominance over the other, Charles perhaps a step below Coles. Read v Palu and Fardy v Kaino will be brilliant battles. Read takes a points decision v Palue and Fardy v Kaino will depend on which version of boths turns up, again a points decision to Kaino probably.
Cant wait for Saturday.
James
Cricket Web Owner
The All Blacks getting done over by the Wallabies in the scrum? You must be joking, there's little to no chance of that happening against that Wallabies front-row. The best the Wallabies can hope for there is parity in my eyes and with it being only Nathan Charles 2nd Test I can see us winning a lot of the Wallabies lineout ball also as the pressure gets to him.
It happens at the start of every season with the Australian media talking them up and saying this is our year to win the Bledisloe. The Wallabies back-line won't matter because I can't see them getting any decent go forward and thus any quick ruck-ball. It may be a 9.2 Wallabies backline but its still a 5.5 forward pack with the only quality there being Hooper.
All Blacks by 20 for me, a high scoring 38-18. If the rain that is forecast comes, I'd say 25-10. The one All Blacks selection that worries me is Cruden with his goal kicking ability, so hoping Barrett getting some decent game time.
It happens at the start of every season with the Australian media talking them up and saying this is our year to win the Bledisloe. The Wallabies back-line won't matter because I can't see them getting any decent go forward and thus any quick ruck-ball. It may be a 9.2 Wallabies backline but its still a 5.5 forward pack with the only quality there being Hooper.
All Blacks by 20 for me, a high scoring 38-18. If the rain that is forecast comes, I'd say 25-10. The one All Blacks selection that worries me is Cruden with his goal kicking ability, so hoping Barrett getting some decent game time.
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Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
of course all of this is eminently sensible. Why play your best team when victories are meaningless this year except for confidence building and momentum. Finding the best combinations and experimenting takes priority. That's what the English did to us as well.Hurricane you are correct with regards to working towards the World Cup, we know what Foley delivers at #10, he is reliable and assured. Beale we don't know yet what he offers at 10, we know he has flair, creativity and attacking nous, what we want to find out is has he grown the temperament for the position in the last few years, or will he get overwhelmed. If he is overwhelmed on comes Foley. In the end it's semi-academic. Quade Cooper will walk back into the 10 position once fit, he is still our best matchwinning #10. And Link loves him
Lulling the ABs into a false sense of confidence by letting them win all the time is also a good strategy as in past world cup competitions we have lost by being ****y.
But from a fan's point of view it is frustrating.
And again you are right KB will be just fine at first five - but I am also right that he will not dominate and he will definitely not be world class. Yet he may have been a real handful at 12.
When I have seen him play 10 in super rugby he looks very very good. There is nothing wrong with the way he plays. The only criticism I can make is that he tries to make a lot happen himself rather than distributing the ball. So the game felt like Kurtley Beale vs the Chiefs (or whoever he played that day)..
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ripper868
International Coach
We are.
9. White
10.Beale
11. Horne
12. Toomua
13. AAC
14. McCabe
15. The good Israel.
Expect to see Kurirdrani move to 13 and AAC to the wing if we find McCabe doesn't have the pace needed for the sting.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
He'll go ok, I don't think he will be a star, but he will not be liability. The man can tackle, Which AAC is about to find out tomorrow night.
ripper868
International Coach
He can tackle, no doubt, but can he read the play as well as and organise a defence as well as Conrad? That he can not, that comes with years of test experience. I'd suggest there will be plenty of running at that channel to test the communication between Nonu and Feki.
James
Cricket Web Owner
Peyper destroyed the game for me. Gave every single decision Australia's way and wouldn't let the All Blacks play the breakdown along with two rubbish yellow card decisions.
To get out of it with a draw given [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Peyper's one eyed referring was down right lucky. [/FONT]I thought it was going to go the same way as the Super 15 rugby final with a dodgy call to hand the Wallabies the win.
To get out of it with a draw given [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Peyper's one eyed referring was down right lucky. [/FONT]I thought it was going to go the same way as the Super 15 rugby final with a dodgy call to hand the Wallabies the win.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Well I feel dismayed with myself that I didn't' predict a tryless game. Last time these two teams played it was tryless as well iirc.
I do have reservations about Australia's selection policies and I felt confused just watching the half back alternate between passing the ball to Beale and Toomua at 1st receiver depending on whether they needed to kick or not, however Australia's "coaching" has gone up an order of magnitude since Deans has left. They seem to play test match rugby and an intelligent brand of it. Their defensive patterns are amazing and for much of the night nz simply couldn't make the gain line.
I am worried for both of these teams in the world cup next year from a goal kicking perspective. Cruden looked shaky at times and surely you can't have Beale as your goal kicker. He makes that kick before half time and maybe Australia win the game.
I do have reservations about Australia's selection policies and I felt confused just watching the half back alternate between passing the ball to Beale and Toomua at 1st receiver depending on whether they needed to kick or not, however Australia's "coaching" has gone up an order of magnitude since Deans has left. They seem to play test match rugby and an intelligent brand of it. Their defensive patterns are amazing and for much of the night nz simply couldn't make the gain line.
I am worried for both of these teams in the world cup next year from a goal kicking perspective. Cruden looked shaky at times and surely you can't have Beale as your goal kicker. He makes that kick before half time and maybe Australia win the game.
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