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Official Rugby Thread
- Thread starter KennyD
- Start date
dermo
International Vice-Captain
Can't believe non of you ****s have mentioned the South Africa v All Blacks game at Ellis park a week or so ago, holy **** that was amazing easily the highest quality game of union i've ever seen or league for that matter
was pretty pleased with the wallabies efforts on saturday though, gave it a good go and there was definitely plenty of positives particularly in the backline
Quade Cooper played his best game for the wallabies imo, some of the balls he was giving at set piece we're beautiful, he's always had that ability and imo the hard running of guys like Kuridrani really helped him. Probably the best part of his game was his composure in other areas, he's always been capable of the magic ball but he made all the right decisions, and executed them. There's this consensus that when Genia plays well the Wallabies play well, but really Quade playing well is far more important, he's the one creating opportunities for his outside men and when he does it takes the pressure off Genia to be the focal point in attack and is so much harder to defend
Despite this there's still a massive difference between us and the All Blacks, especially in the forwards. Read and Messam i just can't talk up enough, they epitomise NZ rugby. They've got the defence and hard ball running of a top line forward, and the skills of any back. IMO the entire NZ pack just works harder than the AUS pack and that was the difference on saturday, the amount of times they score tries with massive overlaps is astonishing and its the work rate of the forwards that allows this. They can commit less forwards to the rucks and still retain the ball easily because rarely does one of their forwards get dominated in a tackle contest, theres a huge gap between the NZ and our forwards in this area, tbh i don't rate Horwill or Mowen at all. Good leaders and good line out jumpers but thats about all imo. Neither are damaging ball runners and neither are punishing defenders, Hooper is twice as good a ball runner as both of them and hes half the size. We really missed Higginbotham this season imo.
and I also reckon Folou's future lies at 13, especially when Beale returns. He's the best ball runner in Aus and arguably the world but watch NZ's first try from the weekend and you can see why Dagg is still the best 15 in the world, Folou needs to improve his ball playing skills a great deal if he wants to take his game to the next level. I will say however his aerial skills are freakish and seeing as every other outside back in Aus seems inept under the high ball, its a real reason to keep him at 15. A fully fit Beale at 15 and Folou at 13 could be the way forward imo.
was pretty pleased with the wallabies efforts on saturday though, gave it a good go and there was definitely plenty of positives particularly in the backline
Quade Cooper played his best game for the wallabies imo, some of the balls he was giving at set piece we're beautiful, he's always had that ability and imo the hard running of guys like Kuridrani really helped him. Probably the best part of his game was his composure in other areas, he's always been capable of the magic ball but he made all the right decisions, and executed them. There's this consensus that when Genia plays well the Wallabies play well, but really Quade playing well is far more important, he's the one creating opportunities for his outside men and when he does it takes the pressure off Genia to be the focal point in attack and is so much harder to defend
Despite this there's still a massive difference between us and the All Blacks, especially in the forwards. Read and Messam i just can't talk up enough, they epitomise NZ rugby. They've got the defence and hard ball running of a top line forward, and the skills of any back. IMO the entire NZ pack just works harder than the AUS pack and that was the difference on saturday, the amount of times they score tries with massive overlaps is astonishing and its the work rate of the forwards that allows this. They can commit less forwards to the rucks and still retain the ball easily because rarely does one of their forwards get dominated in a tackle contest, theres a huge gap between the NZ and our forwards in this area, tbh i don't rate Horwill or Mowen at all. Good leaders and good line out jumpers but thats about all imo. Neither are damaging ball runners and neither are punishing defenders, Hooper is twice as good a ball runner as both of them and hes half the size. We really missed Higginbotham this season imo.
and I also reckon Folou's future lies at 13, especially when Beale returns. He's the best ball runner in Aus and arguably the world but watch NZ's first try from the weekend and you can see why Dagg is still the best 15 in the world, Folou needs to improve his ball playing skills a great deal if he wants to take his game to the next level. I will say however his aerial skills are freakish and seeing as every other outside back in Aus seems inept under the high ball, its a real reason to keep him at 15. A fully fit Beale at 15 and Folou at 13 could be the way forward imo.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Maybe Beale comes in at 12? Really every other position in the backline is spoken for after last night and Tomua didn't look shabby either and he is a waste on the wing.
Your analysis is a good one except a bit unfair on Mowen I thought he was stronger than Messam if we forget about the try that Messam set up. Your number 8 was quite pathetic and didn't seem to understand what a number 8 is supposed to do and that is muscle it up and create fear in the opposition.
your replacement front row was a marked step down from your starters and horwill made his only contribution of the night by leaving the field as they played better without him.
All this said there was a home town call that disadvantaged Australia when they poured 10 guys into a rolling maul 5n metres out and the ref awarded a penalty against them for some strange reason. They score on that play and the game could have been a cliff hanger.
In general Australia produce good line out jumpers and good 7s. And they have always produced good 7s. Going all the way back to poidevin. They struggle for rugged rough as guts people to play in the 6 and 8 jersey.
As far as putting Folau in the 13 jersey, why would you want to displace Kiridrani - he was an absolute revelation at 13 and completely outplayed his opposite number.
Your analysis is a good one except a bit unfair on Mowen I thought he was stronger than Messam if we forget about the try that Messam set up. Your number 8 was quite pathetic and didn't seem to understand what a number 8 is supposed to do and that is muscle it up and create fear in the opposition.
your replacement front row was a marked step down from your starters and horwill made his only contribution of the night by leaving the field as they played better without him.
All this said there was a home town call that disadvantaged Australia when they poured 10 guys into a rolling maul 5n metres out and the ref awarded a penalty against them for some strange reason. They score on that play and the game could have been a cliff hanger.
In general Australia produce good line out jumpers and good 7s. And they have always produced good 7s. Going all the way back to poidevin. They struggle for rugged rough as guts people to play in the 6 and 8 jersey.
As far as putting Folau in the 13 jersey, why would you want to displace Kiridrani - he was an absolute revelation at 13 and completely outplayed his opposite number.
dermo
International Vice-Captain
i probably am being harsh on Mowen bracketing him with Horwill, as a 6 he is a serviceable option. but Fardy definitely superior than him in most facets of the game bar the line out, real shame he didn't play on the weekend because he's been really good the last few games. Fardy 6, Higginbotham 8 and I spose Pocock 7 is the ideal starting back row for the wallabies, although I wouldn't really have a problem with them picking Hooper over Pocock.
don't think you can play Beale at 12 and I'm much more a fan of having your fullback as a 2nd ball player as opposed to playing two 10's at 10 and 12, IMO a good 10 negates the need for a ball player at 12 and I'm more a fan of a hard running 12, i.e Nonu or de Villiers. With all the off field issues he's had this season I think a lot of people have forgotten just how good he is, I think at his best Beale is a better all round fullback than Folou, who still doesn't have the vision, ball playing ability or kicking game that a really good 15 should have. Folou's best asset is his ability to beat defenders 1 v 1 and his ability to get over the advantage line, both essential to a good 13. Don't forget when he left league he was playing centre and that looked to be where his future lay.
Kuridrani has been very good the last few games and especially on saturday he was phenomenal, imo he could play 12 quite easily.
don't think you can play Beale at 12 and I'm much more a fan of having your fullback as a 2nd ball player as opposed to playing two 10's at 10 and 12, IMO a good 10 negates the need for a ball player at 12 and I'm more a fan of a hard running 12, i.e Nonu or de Villiers. With all the off field issues he's had this season I think a lot of people have forgotten just how good he is, I think at his best Beale is a better all round fullback than Folou, who still doesn't have the vision, ball playing ability or kicking game that a really good 15 should have. Folou's best asset is his ability to beat defenders 1 v 1 and his ability to get over the advantage line, both essential to a good 13. Don't forget when he left league he was playing centre and that looked to be where his future lay.
Kuridrani has been very good the last few games and especially on saturday he was phenomenal, imo he could play 12 quite easily.
Spark
Global Moderator
I'm really glad someone else has noticed this
dermo
International Vice-Captain
more with my Folou at 13 thing, Cheika is going to have to fit Beale, Foley and Folou in the starting side at the Waratahs, and Beale can only play 10 or 15 and and Foley has to stay at 10 and Folou has to much attacking talent to play on the wing and only get 5 or 6 touches in a game. Besides Betham and Ashley-Cooper have to play somewhere
my starting waratahs backline would be:
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Betham
12. Horne
13. Folou
14. Ashley-Cooper
15. Beale
my starting waratahs backline would be:
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Betham
12. Horne
13. Folou
14. Ashley-Cooper
15. Beale
_Ed_
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Yeah, it really was amazing. For that reason, I was wondering whether the ABs would be able to be 100% up for the game on Saturday. It was good to see that they pretty much were.
Sam Cane is a terrific understudy to McCaw. And it was nice to see Piutau seemingly shake off the nerves that had plagued his career in the black jersey to date - easily his best Test performance. Nice to see Ben Smith show his versatility with a solid showing at 13.
For Australia, yeah, Cooper was fantastic. Best game I've seen him play for the Wallabies. He kicked superbly, unfazed by the booing - which I noticed turned to grudging applause as the game progressed. Folau is wonderful under the high ball, but I thought he went missing on defence at times.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
The entire back line needs a defence coach.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So young.
ripper868
International Coach
Wallabies giving the Irish a kicking here. No tries conceded while scoring 4 of their own, could have been more if Cooper kicked everything straight. McKenzie emptied the bench at around 65 mins. Good to see. Oh and the Australian scrum destroyed the Irish scrum. Baffling.