*Official* Road to 2013 Ashes

[Prince EWS]

Best bit about that game is how his first innings dismissal was just sooooo Bell (tm) and then he bounced back immediately.

Yeah, it doesn't get any more Bell than caught short cover off the bowling of Chawla for 1 off 28 balls.

 

[Spark]

My criticism of that Bell isn't that at all tbh. It's the same one vic makes, really, and it's one I've probably stated about three hundred times: he's too rigid. He doesn't seem to be particularly nuanced in his approach to batting, which leads to an overly simplistic gameplan at times and stupidity like Ahmedebad because he was so reliant on the big hit down the ground to dominate vs spin, to take one example. Or chipping one to a fielder who had literally just moved there, as happened in this series. It's not "softness", but it does give the strong impression that he does genuinely bat like he's brought out a checklist to the crease, and it does make him very vulnerable to shrewd bowling and captaincy even when set.

 

[honestbharani]

Forgotten because England got hammered and he got out in a pretty ugly manner?

Look, he's a good player, and he'll probably do alright. But he does have a marked propensity for getting out in some truly appalling ways at bad times for the team.



Not if they become a pattern. There are some ways you simply should not get out by on a regular basis. Caught in the ring is right up there.

I remember vehemently advocating dropping Bell for Panesar in the UAE while England were getting whitewashed. Given how Monty went in India, I still think it was a trick missed by Flower & Co.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

He's just trolling.

How many infraction points is that?

 

[Prince EWS]

I remember vehemently advocating dropping Bell for Panesar in the UAE while England were getting whitewashed. Given how Monty went in India, I still think it was a trick missed by Flower & Co.

Panesar actually played two of the Tests in the UAE though and England lost both of them. And without wanting to get into that debate again, England weren't having any trouble bowling Pakistan out for low totals, so a fifth bowler would've just scored no runs and not got a bowl.

 

[Cabinet96]

I remember vehemently advocating dropping Bell for Panesar in the UAE while England were getting whitewashed. Given how Monty went in India, I still think it was a trick missed by Flower & Co.

Panesar played in the UAE though.

@Spark: fair enough. My annoyance with Bell stereotypes doesn't really come from anything you've said FTR.

 

[Jarquis]

My criticism of that Bell isn't that at all tbh. It's the same one vic makes, really, and it's one I've probably stated about three hundred times: he's too rigid. He doesn't seem to be particularly nuanced in his approach to batting, which leads to an overly simplistic gameplan at times and stupidity like Ahmedebad because he was so reliant on the big hit down the ground to dominate vs spin, to take one example. Or chipping one to a fielder who had literally just moved there, as happened in this series. It's not "softness", but it does give the strong impression that he does genuinely bat like he's brought out a checklist to the crease, and it does make him very vulnerable to shrewd bowling and captaincy even when set.

That's not his reputation from 2005 though, so not really relevant to my post you replied to.

 

[Spark]

I don't think they're that separate in terms of what ends up happening as a result. If you're overly rigid in your approach to batting and find it difficult to adapt quickly, then the absolute last bowlers you'd want to face are Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath, as an example. (As an aside, the corollary to that is that the bowler you would most want to face is someone like, say, Mitchell Johnson on an average day)

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't think they're that separate in terms of what ends up happening as a result. If you're overly rigid in your approach to batting and find it difficult to adapt quickly, then the absolute last bowlers you'd want to face are Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath, as an example.

Unless you're Mark Rampraskash.

For some reason.

 

[honestbharani]

Panesar actually played two of the Tests in the UAE though and England lost both of them. And without wanting to get into that debate again, England weren't having any trouble bowling Pakistan out for low totals, so a fifth bowler would've just scored no runs and not got a bowl.

Panesar played in the UAE though.

@Spark: fair enough. My annoyance with Bell stereotypes doesn't really come from anything you've said FTR.

Fair enough.. I do not recall that series that well, so maybe I was arguing for a seamer over Bell? Either way, given how dross Bell was that series, I think they might as well chanced an additional bowler and try to bowl Pak out for lesser..

 

[Furball]

Much the same with Trott tbf. Yet Bell still gets far more stick.

Trott can gagf, been utterly arse since Melbourne.

 

[Furball]

I remember vehemently advocating dropping Bell for Panesar in the UAE while England were getting whitewashed. Given how Monty went in India, I still think it was a trick missed by Flower & Co.

No, you advocated dropping Morgan for Finn. I also seem to remember explaining at the time, on numerous occasions, that your idea was completely ********.

 

[honestbharani]

No, you advocated dropping him for Finn. I also seem to remember explaining at the time, on numerous occasions, that your idea was completely ********.

well.. given ******** was how Bell was batting, it was at least an even trade IMO..

 

[flibbertyjibber]

well.. given ******** was how Bell was batting, it was at least an even trade IMO..

When you see how Finn has become an all rounder of late he'd have outbatted Bell.

 

[honestbharani]

When you see how Finn has become an all rounder of late he'd have outbatted Bell.

Well.. I have always been blessed with foresight..

 

[Cabinet96]

I reckon England would have done worse with the ball had they had Finn as a 5th bowler. He would have been given the ball for the sake of it, and would have released the pressure created by the other four.

 

[Jarquis]

I don't think they're that separate in terms of what ends up happening as a result. If you're overly rigid in your approach to batting and find it difficult to adapt quickly, then the absolute last bowlers you'd want to face are Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath, as an example. (As an aside, the corollary to that is that the bowler you would most want to face is someone like, say, Mitchell Johnson on an average day)

That has nothing to do with mental strength IMO

 

[wpdavid]

3rd seamers spot is certainly up for grabs, no? Finn was far from brilliant in NZ, and I'd personally be far happier if Tremlett or Bresnan can get back to their best and into the side. Onions has to be a major shout if he does well in the first half of the Championship too. One warm up game against a New Zealand XI shouldn't be enough to suddenly discard him after a year of waiting in the wings.

He was very dire indeed in that warm up game though ....

I reckon the biggest winner out of the NZ series might be Bresnan, as long as he's properly fit and unless Finn makes an astonishingly good start to the season.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Bresnan needs to prove he is fully fit and has some pace back before he gets another England cap in any format for me. Be an asset if he does return to form, bit much to expect Tremlett to remain fit though sadly.

 

[social]

My criticism of that Bell isn't that at all tbh. It's the same one vic makes, really, and it's one I've probably stated about three hundred times: he's too rigid. He doesn't seem to be particularly nuanced in his approach to batting, which leads to an overly simplistic gameplan at times and stupidity like Ahmedebad because he was so reliant on the big hit down the ground to dominate vs spin, to take one example. Or chipping one to a fielder who had literally just moved there, as happened in this series. It's not "softness", but it does give the strong impression that he does genuinely bat like he's brought out a checklist to the crease, and it does make him very vulnerable to shrewd bowling and captaincy even when set.

Bell is incredibly talented and a very good test player but I cannot stand watching him bat

He reminds me of kids I used to see at Barry Knight's and the Kingsgrove Sports Centre - style but limited substance

I know that this is ridiculously unfair but he really ****s me

I hate the fact that he holds a pose after every single delivery

It totally pisses me off that he makes the most ordinary delivery look like a hand grenade because of his desire to look good

And I cannot stand how complicated he makes batting for someone with his talent e.g. that bull**** premeditated lap sweep he plays is so much nonsense when a single is all he hopes to get from it