*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[Athlai]

So Paige, del Rio and Eva Marie all suspended for wellness violations and I'm most disappointed with how Eva Marie's absence will affect the product.

And there is a part of my brain telling me that Eva Marie's violation may be a work. Damn you Smackdown, you're so good.

 

[King Pietersen]

No violation for Bork though. Wellness policy is such bullshit.

 

[Mike5181]

How much did the crowd love it when after the final Kenny just started speaking what sounded like fluent Japanese. Legit went from a star to a superstar that night.

Last match of Group B, Kenny Omega vs Naito

scenario: Naito is on 12 points, Omega is on 10. An Omega victory wins him the group while Naito could play defence and take a 30 minute time limit draw, or a double count-out, although such a defensive style would put him at a disadvantage in the final, as his oppentent will have an extra day's rest.

context: Naito and Omega are the two biggest heels in NJPW, leaders of los ingobernables and bullet club respectively, with Kenny taking over from AJ Styles in what is still the best angle of the year for me. Naito is a glorious dick who doesn't actually care about the title while Kenny's a weirdo.

****ing hell that was awesome. It's been a while since I've seen Okada/Tanahashi at WK10 but this one has to be right up there, maybe even better. Check this one out Dan if you haven't already.

One of the cool things about Omega is definitely his move-set. Every time I see him he's pulling out new ****. That spot where he jumped to the outside was really dangerous though.

 

[Dan]

No violation for Bork though. Wellness policy is such bullshit.

No it's not.

 

[Dan]

Watching Omega/Naito now.

More NJPW/Puro recommendations pls.

 

[Dan]

Ok, live thoughts.

-- Why is Naito even bothering to wrestle this match? Like, he's evidently not an honourable dude.
-- This either needs to be a Naito/Omega bloodfeud to justify this, or they need to sell Naito as being so arrogant re beating Goto that he's wrestling today too.
-- I dislike Naito
-- Ok that slide into the pose thing was kinda cool.
-- Spitting less so, but hey, heel vs heel I suppose.
-- Kenny is really selling this knee
-- Like, really
-- That apron body slam did not look nice
-- Is this pushing Omega into a "you're a dick but we like you" face turn?
-- Chops. Ow.
-- The selling of the knee on the rolling fireman's carry, leaving him open to the corner dropkick, was pretty awesome. That's a quarter star on its own.
-- Why is there a pouch on Naito's tights?
-- Kenny needs a better bandage
-- That kick off the apron. OH ****.
-- A table being treated differently depending on whether you set it up or not is one of those weird things of wrestling.
-- That outside dive looked botched badly. Kenny did not land well, Naito did not get hit well.
-- Some good storytelling with Kenny scrambling to get out of the ring to break the count.
-- Dragon suplex on the apron. holy ****.
-- That deadlift into a set of counters was pretty cool. Was it a Ganso Bomb or Styles Clash tease? Who cares, Yoshi Tatsu's neck would be broken irrespective.
-- Pretty insane sequence from the top rope rana roll through into the modified pumphandle side slam thingo.
-- Sell on the German counter. Wow.
-- LAAAARIATOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
-- That kneebar really should have been it. Kenny should not be lasting this long.
-- I get Fighting Spirit and everthing, but Kenny should be out of it.
-- Avalance Poisoned Hurricanranas should not be kicked out of. Ever. They should be instant death.
-- How is Kenny up?
-- Ew unprotected head drops. That was disgusting.
-- Using Red Shoes to get up is great.
-- This really is the whole 'get Kenny over' thing with the time limit hovering.
-- Flying forearm into the knee. ouch.
-- Ahh finishing sequence. I know that Omega doesn't bust out the electric chair into the German that often.
-- One Winged Angel. Nobody gets up from that.
-- This just makes Naito look really, really, really stupid.

 

[Spikey]

i encourage everyone to watch the first match here (there's a little bit at the start removed, including the introductions)

NJPW G1 Climax 26 Day 19 - 2016.08.14 - Part 02 - Video Dailymotion

it's only 9-10 minutes long. the key guy is Shibata, who gets tagged in at 0.30. Shibata is....you'll see. In this match, his 3 tag mates are all NJPW legends (who he had recently been feuding with) while the other team are all guys from pro wrestling noah. you will know when this **** turns up a notch, you'll hear it. i couldn't believe what i saw.

It's believed that this is leading to a match between Shibata and a guy named Suzuki...and on that note, I believe AJ's most praised match in NJPW was against Suzuki: *English Commentary* NJPW AJ Styles vs Suzuki G1 Climax 2014 - Video Dailymotion

(i've never watched this copy that has dubbed on English commentary, I think just by some randoms, so I have no idea if they're good at it. There's a write up about it here that provides context and stuff but don't click it unless you want to be spoiled

 

[Spikey]

No violation for Bork though. Wellness policy is such bullshit.

No it's not.

It's weird.

Wrestling being the worked sport it is, there's, for me, not much justification for Brock being banned for taking a performance enhancing drug. The purpose of any WWE drug policy should be to prevent addiction and in particular try to prevent cases of wrestlers who are working almost every day thinking they need to have the body of a Greek god and therefore getting on the gear and creating a pretty terrible cycle. The policy shouldn't be aimed at the likes of Brock. However, it sets an absolutely terrible example to the every day workers when you have the part timer walking in with the body-builder body that gets everyone raving and then later gets busted and walks away scot free. Obviously Brock is hard to punish (and it turns out his contract is literally set up so that what gets others in terrible leaves him scot free) but it's a pretty crappy situation

 

[Dan]

Was Shibata legit trying to kill them? Like, headbutting them so hard that he split himself open?

 

[Dan]

And yeah, the thing with Brock and the Wellness is that, a) he never failed a WWE test as far as I'm aware, and b) suspending him for 30 days does literally nothing when he's a part-timer who's barely around anyway.

 

[Spikey]

Ok stay with me. I've bolded the important bits

From Tanahashi's Book:

Shibata and I passed the tryout on the same day, but I entered NJPW a year after when I graduated from college, so that made him senior to me by a year. Age-wise, he is three years younger than me. Back then, I used to call him “Shibata-san” and he used to call me “Tanahashi-kun” (‘san’ is superior to ‘kun’ in terms of prefix). The relations of Three New Musketeers were somewhat complicated. Nakamura and Shibata were the same age, but Nakamura is 4 years junior to Shibata in the industry. But when they’ve faced each other in amateur wrestling in high school, Nakamura won. Although the two had not much in common and didn’t admire each other, wrestlers in that kind of relationship tend to create a surprisingly high quality match. “Shibata vs Nakamura” is a wild-card matchup for the current NJPW in my opinion. The two are both adept at creating a dangerous and tense atmosphere, so it will be undoubtedly a must-see match. My feelings for Shibata are complicated. He is clumsy, too pure, and once he gets an idea about “What pro-wrestling should be” into his head, he can only move forward in that direction. When he stated, “I’m starting to enjoy pro-wrestling” in 2013 G1 CLIMAX, I snapped at him and said “Cut the crap!” On one hand, this was a rage against him for leaving the company at desperate times. “Of course you’ll enjoy wrestling in front of a full packed hectic crowd!” But to be honest, I wanted him to realize that long before this. He should have realized sooner. Only if he would have stayed in NJPW and worked together with us to make things better... I’m fully aware of the reason why he couldn’t come to enjoy wrestling at that time, and that he left the company after much agonizing. So on the other hand, I feel happy for what he’s said. But I found his last word in NJPW (2005) “I’m not going to be a white-collar (yes-man) wrestler” offensive. Shibata has always turned down what the company brought to him saying, "I'm not interested” but when you ask him what he wants to do, he never came up with an actual plan. There’s no way the fans would support him, and Shibata himself would eventually reach a dead-end. That’s why I refuted, “Shibata is like a junior high student who has just entered his rebellious age. Pro-wrestling is a brawl? Killing? Then why are you wrestling in the first place!” These words didn’t just come out of my mouth out of anger, this is what I’ve been advocating for years. And I still feel the same. And last year when he fought in the G1, he got good reaction from the crowd with his Bachi Bachi (MMA/Brawler/Battle Arts style) match. I felt the locker room feel uneasy about it. But it didn’t perturb me at all. I could imagine to a certain extent that the crowd will react to slaps and kicks. I take pride in saying that Shibata’s style was accepted because “Tanahashi / Okada” styles were established as a basis. There is a foundation for “A bit old-school NJPW” style matches to be accepted in the current NJPW. This is not a bluff. I believe so from the bottom of my heart. There is no “Next” to those Bachi Bachi style matches. As I pointed earlier when I talked about dangerous moves, fans will seek for more intensity. And the wrestlers have to escalate their violence. And a gruesome scene that you would want to look away will take place on the ring again. I believe that the true nature of pro-wrestling lies in arousing fans’ interest, making them wonder, “Where will this fight lead to next?” Is there “Next” to Shibata’s pro-wrestling?

so basically Shibata is stiff as ****. He, sadly, loves to headbutt. (although this was clearly the pinnacle of headbutting). And as you can kinda tell, he left NJPW a few years ago in bad circumstances. He's recently been feuding with NJPW's "third generation" and now that's done, he's now part of that group. He's a proud NJPW guy who has regained the respect of the locker room. And now these Pro Wrestling Noah guys are coming round to their tournament (you've missed out on the crowd's reaction to some of the Noah guys btw. there was already heat) and Shibata isn't having that. I don't think he intended to draw his own blood but he isn't upset about it, and it made the brawl all the more awesome.

 

[Spikey]

And yeah, the thing with Brock and the Wellness is that, a) he never failed a WWE test as far as I'm aware, and b) suspending him for 30 days does literally nothing when he's a part-timer who's barely around anyway.

I mean, there's no greater punishment than the punishment Brock has done to himself. He no longer has the UFC option. I guess he could pick some other MMA company, but he's lost a lot of leverage

 

[King Pietersen]

And yeah, the thing with Brock and the Wellness is that, a) he never failed a WWE test as far as I'm aware, and b) suspending him for 30 days does literally nothing when he's a part-timer who's barely around anyway.

Do you know why that is? WWE don't test "part-timers".

 

[Dan]

Ok stay with me. I've bolded the important bits

From Tanahashi's Book:



so basically Shibata is stiff as ****. He, sadly, loves to headbutt. (although this was clearly the pinnacle of headbutting). And as you can kinda tell, he left NJPW a few years ago in bad circumstances. He's recently been feuding with NJPW's "third generation" and now that's done, he's now part of that group. He's a proud NJPW guy who has regained the respect of the locker room. And now these Pro Wrestling Noah guys are coming round to their tournament (you've missed out on the crowd's reaction to some of the Noah guys btw. there was already heat) and Shibata isn't having that. I don't think he intended to draw his own blood but he isn't upset about it, and it made the brawl all the more awesome.

Yeah, that kinda worries me. The NJPW MMA-ish group of guys having to push limits in worked MMA-ish matches worries me, much like the '90s Deathmatch and early-2000s US Hardcore promotions had to keep upping and upping the ante until you've got time bombs, razor blade boards, piranhas and weed whackers involved in 'matches'. Or the Kings Road promotions with Misawa etc ending up with Ganso Bombs and Burning Hammers because they had to push somewhere.

 

[Dan]

Do you know why that is? WWE don't test "part-timers".

How would you?

"Oh hey Brock, you're not actually working for us until February for the 'Mania build, but we've gotta test you for steroids anyway, and if you fail you're suspended for 30 of those days you're not working, and it won't impact on your pay because that's not how your contract works. It's the principle of it, y'know."

 

[Spikey]

"Is there “Next” to Shibata’s pro-wrestling?" really is a gun line. What a guy Tanahashi is. let's see cena match that. Tanahashi-Shibata had a gun match where this tension was a central point but I can't find a non-NJPW world link.

Here's a link to the highest rated NJPW matches (meltzer ratings and crowd sourced ratings). there's a pretty big recency bias. the first non 2000's match features Benoit

Do you know why that is? WWE don't test "part-timers".

Incidentally, prior to the silly red head getting busted, I was wondering if Del Rio/Paige had actually tested positive, or if they had been caught with something on them, and they were treating that as a positive test.

 

[King Pietersen]

You test him after every show he performs on. If he fails a test, he loses his cheque. Suspension isn't the only punishment they can hand out. They won't do that though, because they're not really interested in cleaning up the sport.

 

[Dan]

"Is there “Next” to Shibata’s pro-wrestling?" really is a gun line. What a guy Tanahashi is. let's see cena match that. Tanahashi-Shibata had a gun match where this tension was a central point but I can't find a non-NJPW world link.

Here's a link to the highest rated NJPW matches (meltzer ratings and crowd sourced ratings). there's a pretty big recency bias. the first non 2000's match features Benoit



Incidentally, prior to the silly red head getting busted, I was wondering if Del Rio/Paige had actually tested positive, or if they had been caught with something on them, and they were treating that as a positive test.

Might have a look at Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask from '83. Could be fun.

Also Paige/Del Rio had to be birthday coke or something, no?

 

[Dan]

Can't wait for Del Rio to blame his mum for giving him something to look good on TV, though.

 

[Spikey]

Don't agree with that. I mean, I doubt any other wrestling company is testing their workers in any serious way. And they're so obsessed with branding that they can't not be interested in cleaning it up. However, I think it's fair to say they have a different intention than to say USADA, and so they should. A witch hunt that eliminates people for two years would be stupid on their part. Indeed, I'm not so sure that the 30 day suspension is the right move. Mandatory sentencing for drug offences isn't exactly known for it's success in America. Regardless, I go back to my above point. WWE's drug policy should be focused on the day to day working environments ie creating a workplace where they don't feel the pressure to have the bodybuilder look like in the 80s/90s. And that hardly relates to Brock.

Obviously the part time thing is a massive loop-hole, but the guys who can exploit are not working day in and day out and that's a massive thing here imo. It's definitely a problem but to me it's a problem because it's totally disrespectful to the guys working every day who don't really have the opportunity to keep their bodies jacked. i think it's pissing all over them tbh. (There's another loop-hole with returning guys too - i've heard people say there's no way Del Rio was clean when he came back and I think guys who are injured are exempt from testing, this is a bigger problem than the part timer stuff imo)