***Official*** Pakistan in England

[FaaipDeOiad]

As soon as I go to bed, Neil comes on and making the exact arguments I would have made.

Anyway, I gather there's been no official statement about the evidence of ball tampering yet? Surely that means that it's a situation like Surrey faced, where the state of the ball alone has led to the decision.

 

[R_D]

Whats pretty clear from reading quite a few of the posts. Most People from sub-continent or from sub-cont background seem to hold one view about Hair while People from England, Aus and SA etc seem to hold other view. Same could be said about Pakistan's stance. Wonder whats up with that ?

Like Dasa pointed out its also quite interesting how certain people can be quite subjective about certain real life issues ie Lebbanon/ Palestine thread yet same people can't do the same in this case. Again i wonder why.

Anyways. What pakistan did was quite right and what they received is right as well occording to the law. At least finally we can get rid of umpires like Hair who cleraly seem to have agenda against sub-cont teams for whatever reason. Won't go as far as calling him racist but its pretty close call.

 

[R_D]

People keep pointing out Surrey Situation.. First of all Surrey are just a doemstic team and i doubt too many outside of England give a hoots about them. Someone already said they admited to cheating so i don't see how both of these situations are same. Your questioning a team's integrity and labeling them cheats. I think its a big deal at an international level not that implying that cheating at lower level is acceptable but the influence is massive at international level. The media and not to mention the audience involved. A lot more people affected by accusing a international team so maybe thats why Pak team wanted to make a stand and which they have every right to do so.

 

[silentstriker]

The umpires’ decision meant this became the first forfeited match in Test cricket’s 129-year history.

Wow, I didn't know that this was the first forfeit.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Whats pretty clear from reading quite a few of the posts. Most People from sub-continent or from sub-cont background seem to hold one view about Hair while People from England, Aus and SA etc seem to hold other view. Same could be said about Pakistan's stance. Wonder whats up with that ?

That's not been what I've seen at all. Practically everyone agrees that Hair is self-interested and may be bad for the game. The distinction is really that some of us don't believe that excuses Pakistan's behaviour.

 

[Yahto]

An incident like this cannot be snuffed out without an uproar. The players involved are human. By this decision, the ICC has called in question the integrity of the Pakistan cricket board itself. (cricinfo notes that no individual player was accused) If the players/board feels strongly about this, then they should boycott/do whatever is necessary by all means.

I still think that calling off a test match based on the stubbornness of a single individual is beyond ridiculous.

Excuse me ? The Pakistani team had twenty whole minutes to take the field after tea. The Umpires even had the decency to walk up and warn them of the consequences. If anything, you need to question the stubbornness of the Pakistani team.

 

[Yahto]

So if the little 10-15 minute period is definitely where the supposed tampering occurred, surely we could just look at every camera angle possible for the 15 minutes, and follow the ball as best as possible. It wouldn't take as long as Scaly suggested earlier in the thread, and I'm sure the cameras would pick up on anything. Very little can get hidden nowadays.

Plus, Hair was suspicious of them for some reason throughout the day, as shown by the video footage of him continously eyeing Asif down when shining the ball.

Are you suggesting that each and every Pakistani player on the field was under the spotlight every second in that period ?

 

[Yahto]

Would you want to play in an enviornment after someones' unfairly told you that you're a cheat?

I wouldn't.

Then why walk on to the field after the decision of forfeiture has been made ? Why not stay put in the dressing room ?

 

[vic_orthdox]

It was mentioned on cricinfo that the "quarter-seam" was raised. Ain't all that sure on the definition of "quarter-seam".

Is it just another word for seam?

Is it a point on the seam where two pieces of a four piece ball meet?

Is it the stitching along the face of the ball that holds two of the four piece balls together?

 

[Yahto]

How is it spineless?

An abandonment without awarding the game to England would have implied the ICC over ruling the umpires' decision. Its not the actual conclusion of the match I was protesting, it was the possibility that the ICC would strip the match of official status...

 

[Jono]

Are you suggesting that each and every Pakistani player on the field was under the spotlight every second in that period ?

Its not hard to follow the ball for 15 minutes of a test match. You don't have to be 'under the spotlight', but you for the most part are very likely to be caught on camera, whether the camera was actually viewing you on purpose or not.

 

[Yahto]

The umpire should never accuse a team of something like this, unless they saw someone tampering with the ball.

In effect you're handing out a license to players to tamper with the ball legitimately as long as they aren't in the direct line of vision of the umpires. So the next time the umpire gets hold of a ball scuffed up in an unnatural fashion, he shouldn't even suggest tampering. Just get on with the game. How wonderful. Out of sight, out of mind ?

 

[honestbharani]

In effect you're handing out a license to players to tamper with the ball legitimately as long as they aren't in the direct line of vision of the umpires. So the next time the umpire gets hold of a ball scuffed up in an unnatural fashion, he shouldn't even suggest tampering. Just get on with the game. How wonderful. Out of sight, out of mind ?

yeah, and just because the ball's condition has changed, the umpires should then proceed to call the bowling team the cheaters? In that case, every team that bowls second in day night ODIs are tampering with the ball.


Lovely logic.

 

[vic_orthdox]

yeah, and just because the ball's condition has changed, the umpires should then proceed to call the bowling team the cheaters? In that case, every team that bowls second in day night ODIs are tampering with the ball.


Lovely logic.

If a seam has been opened, then it's not proper for use. Therefore you replace the ball?

 

[Dasa]

If a seam has been opened, then it's not proper for use. Therefore you replace the ball?

...but you don't accuse a team of deliberately tampering with the ball without evidence. As it stands now, no one has yet found any evidence that anything was done deliberately. If the umpires thought the ball wasn't suitable, they could've changed it with little fanfare, but they chose to make an accusation of unfair play instead.

 

[honestbharani]

If a seam has been opened, then it's not proper for use. Therefore you replace the ball?

But how do u know that the bowling team cheated? Again, a big accusation if u ask me, unless u have solid evidence. Aren't there no other ways a seam of a ball can open?

 

[vic_orthdox]

...but you don't accuse a team of deliberately tampering with the ball without evidence. As it stands now, no one has yet found any evidence that anything was done deliberately. If the umpires thought the ball wasn't suitable, they could've changed it with little fanfare, but they chose to make an accusation of unfair play instead.

Sorry, was speaking more generally rather than in this specific situation where the 5 runs have been taken off.

 

[Yahto]

yeah, and just because the ball's condition has changed, the umpires should then proceed to call the bowling team the cheaters? In that case, every team that bowls second in day night ODIs are tampering with the ball.


Lovely logic.

Which part of 'scuffed up in an unnatural fashion' do you not get ? Umpires are trained to distinguish between natural wear and tear, dew etc as opposed to deviations from those.

 

[JustTool]

The Three Stooges

Let's see - 3 parties involved who have exhibited imbecilic behavior before. In order of stupidty (biggest first)

1) ICC - worthless cricket body who has no clue how to cash in on an incredibly popular sport in the sub-continent. Still stuck in the colonial morass and monarchistic methods

2) Darrell Hair - biased, racist who seems to find all sorts fo problems with ONLY Sri Lanka, Pakistan and India - check it out, the record apeaks for itself. Complete idiot.

3) Pakistan Team - Having actually tampered with the ball before taking so much umbrage at the stupidity of 1) and 2) was a little too emotional. However, I don't blame them.

So you mix these three ingredients and why is any one surprised ?

 

[JustTool]

Which part of 'scuffed up in an unnatural fashion' do you not get ? Umpires are trained to distinguish between natural wear and tear, dew etc as opposed to deviations from those.

hair - like you - is trained only in stupidity. have u ever seen a cricket ball ?