***Official*** Pakistan in England

[aussie]

Is this proper impressive or Shaun Tait impressive?

your point?

 

[marc71178]

I'm asking how impressive he's been.

 

[IndianByHeart]

Preferred teams for the 1st test:




PAKISTAN:

Shoaib Malik
Salmab Butt
Younis Khan
Mohammad Yousuf
Inzamam UL-Haq
Shaid Afridi/Abdur Razzaq
Kamran Akmal
Mohammad Sami
Umar Gul
Mohammad Asif
Danish Kaneria

Unless England play crap cricket, i don't see how they can lose this series.I fear that Pak will face a white wash at the hands of England.Without Akhtar and Rana, Pak bowling is extremely weak, can't recall such a weak Pak bowling side touring England before.

Mustaq ahmad should be recalled, he can trouble the batsmen and is also handy with bat.

 

[tooextracool]

well all good, all he needs to do is keep it up & if the middle-order doesn't do well vs Pakistan the selectors will have to look at him.

the middle order is crying out for experience. Its worth it to have a proven player in the side.

 

[TT Boy]

Unless England play crap cricket, i don't see how they can lose this series.I fear that Pak will face a white wash at the hands of England.Without Akhtar and Rana, Pak bowling is extremely weak, can't recall such a weak Pak bowling side touring England before.

Mustaq ahmad should be recalled, he can trouble the batsmen and is also handy with bat.

Wonder when the Indian trolls would turn up.

 

[aussie]

I'm asking how impressive he's been.

good enough to warrant one more chance in the 1st test IMO..

 

[wpdavid]

That side is even worse than the one that ended up drawing the series 1-1 with Sl given that it lacks Flintoff. I dont see any reason why Butcher should not be given a go in the side when we clearly need some experience in the middle order. Bell hasnt exactly been setting the world alight in domestic cricket either.

Never said I liked it! Only that's who I think will play. Trouble with Butcher instead of Bell is I don't think he'd be much cop coming in at 4 or below in tests. I know he's batting at 4 for Surrey this summer, but he shouldn't be and I'd worry about him starting against Kaneria. I know the middle order is inexperienced and I agree it's a problem but I think we're just stuck with it. Looking ahead, tbh I've almost written off the Ashes and I see us as building for beyond.

And no, I'm not thrilled about Plunkett at 8 either, but I'm not sure what the alternatives are unless we replace Panesar with Swann or some other spinner who can actually bat.

 

[Autobahn]

Never said I liked it! Only that's who I think will play. Trouble with Butcher instead of Bell is I don't think he'd be much cop coming in at 4 or below in tests. I know he's batting at 4 for Surrey this summer, but he shouldn't be and I'd worry about him starting against Kaneria. I know the middle order is inexperienced and I agree it's a problem but I think we're just stuck with it. Looking ahead, tbh I've almost written off the Ashes and I see us as building for beyond.

And no, I'm not thrilled about Plunkett at 8 either, but I'm not sure what the alternatives are unless we replace Panesar with Swann or some other spinner who can actually bat.

I dunno why Swann hasn't been selected recently, all i can think of is reports of attitude problems that came out when he toured SA in 1999/2000

 

[IndianByHeart]

Wonder when the Indian trolls would turn up.

Take a break gigolo!



Pak bowling might struggled against the Indian reject batsmen in Mongia, wonder who will they fare against English frontline batsmen?

 

[Autobahn]

Take a break gigolo!



Pak bowling might struggled against the Indian reject batsmen in Mongia, wonder who will they fare against English frontline batsmen?

Yes because you are going to be firing 100% in a warm-up match

And if you're going to do nothing but insult other users you can find a different message board.

 

[Fusion]

Good to see the Pak openers doing well against Leicester. They need all the confidence they can accumulate before the series begins.

 

[adharcric]

Any chance Butt and Farhat will open and Malik gets left out?

 

[Xuhaib]

Any chance Butt and Farhat will open and Malik gets left out?

No chance Woolmer has confirmed that Malik is dead certain for one of the opening slots.

 

[tooextracool]

Never said I liked it! Only that's who I think will play. Trouble with Butcher instead of Bell is I don't think he'd be much cop coming in at 4 or below in tests. I know he's batting at 4 for Surrey this summer, but he shouldn't be and I'd worry about him starting against Kaneria. I know the middle order is inexperienced and I agree it's a problem but I think we're just stuck with it. Looking ahead, tbh I've almost written off the Ashes and I see us as building for beyond.

My side would have him batting at 3, with the strauss-cook replacement. nonetheless i think hes good enough to bat at 4 anyhow, and if hes doing it for surrey, i dont see why he cant do it for England. As far as his ability against spin is concerned, i dont doubt that at all. Hes scored runs against Warne before, hes score runs against Murali in Sl and Kaneria is really not that threatening except on the last day of the test match(the last series against England being a case in point). As long as Butcher can pick his googly, hed have no problems handling Kaneria, and we all know that hes arguably Englands best player of pace bowling.
As far as the Ashes are concerned, while the loss of Jones is huge, i dont see how anyone can write off England when their batting is likely to be even better than last time. If all the bowlers bar Jones are fit(and even he might make a comeback), a potential side could be: Tresco, Cook, Butcher, Pietersen,Joyce/Shah/Collingwood, Flintoff, Read,Giles, Hoggard, Harmison, Anderson which isnt as bad as most people make it out to be. But if i see the likes of Plunkett and Mahmood down under i really am going on a hunt to shoot down Graveney.

 

[no1_gangsta_786]

IMO Shoaib Malik should open with Imran Farhat in the first test against Englnad.

 

[wpdavid]

As far as the Ashes are concerned, while the loss of Jones is huge, i dont see how anyone can write off England when their batting is likely to be even better than last time. If all the bowlers bar Jones are fit(and even he might make a comeback), a potential side could be: Tresco, Cook, Butcher, Pietersen,Joyce/Shah/Collingwood, Flintoff, Read,Giles, Hoggard, Harmison, Anderson which isnt as bad as most people make it out to be. But if i see the likes of Plunkett and Mahmood down under i really am going on a hunt to shoot down Graveney.

Part of it's my natural pessimism, but, irrespective of injuries, I look at the form of much of the side and I'd be amazed if they moved it up a couple of gears for Aus. Of course, if they play as they can against pakistan I might change my tune. Looking at our key performers, Tres has rid his luck over the past 12 months (no-ball dismissals, dropped catches, plumb lbw's not given when he's gone on to make 100's) and that can't go on forever, Fred isn't what he was and may not even be fit, Harmison seems to be reverting to pre-2004 underachiever mode, and I'm not sure that Hoggard is really suited to Aus.
Oh, and I don't reckon Giles will be fit, which messes up the whole balance of the lower order, as we know all too well. At least the Vaughan situation has beeen decided now rather than in the Autumn, which should help.

Your batting lineup's an interesting one. I reckon Aus would rather face Butcher than the guy who took 2 hundreds off them last time around, and I can't see that happening. Maybe Butcher should be in the squad as cover for injuries.

 

[tooextracool]

Part of it's my natural pessimism, but, irrespective of injuries, I look at the form of much of the side and I'd be amazed if they moved it up a couple of gears for Aus. Of course, if they play as they can against pakistan I might change my tune. Looking at our key performers, Tres has rid his luck over the past 12 months (no-ball dismissals, dropped catches, plumb lbw's not given when he's gone on to make 100's) and that can't go on forever, Fred isn't what he was and may not even be fit, Harmison seems to be reverting to pre-2004 underachiever mode, and I'm not sure that Hoggard is really suited to Aus.
Oh, and I don't reckon Giles will be fit, which messes up the whole balance of the lower order, as we know all too well. At least the Vaughan situation has beeen decided now rather than in the Autumn, which should help.

that maybe the case, but this side is not overly worse or better than the side that won the Ashes last time around and while it may not fill anyone with a lot of confidence, i still would be optimistic about our chances. That is of course if the selectors pick the right side. Knowing the selectors of course, the side that will in all likelyhood start down under will be something like this: Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, Pietersen, Collingwood, Flintoff, Jones, Plunkett, Harmison, Hoggard and Panesar providing everyone is fit. In which case there is no hope for us down under whatsoever.

Your batting lineup's an interesting one. I reckon Aus would rather face Butcher than the guy who took 2 hundreds off them last time around, and I can't see that happening. Maybe Butcher should be in the squad as cover for injuries.

Strauss was thoroughly worked out by Australia and while he did score 2 hundreds, one of which was really in a dead innings, the rest of his performances were absolutely atrocious. Im almost certain that with their bowlers all being likely to be in form at home this time around, Strauss will struggle to score a single run(at least unless he makes drastic changes to his technique and temperament before then). As far as Butcher is concerned, Australia can certainly not go in with confidence against a guy who single handedly won a test against them in 2001 and a player who they have never ever manage to work out.

 

[Xuhaib]

Good win for Pak.

Nice to see Kaneria among the wickets and Malik confirm his opening slot for the tests.

 

[wpdavid]

that maybe the case, but this side is not overly worse or better than the side that won the Ashes last time around and while it may not fill anyone with a lot of confidence, i still would be optimistic about our chances. That is of course if the selectors pick the right side. Knowing the selectors of course, the side that will in all likelyhood start down under will be something like this: Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, Pietersen, Collingwood, Flintoff, Jones, Plunkett, Harmison, Hoggard and Panesar providing everyone is fit. In which case there is no hope for us down under whatsoever.

Going back to your selection, if Giles is fit he'll play of course, so it's not 100% accurate to put Panesar in the selectors' XI instead of him. Out of interest, what would your lower order be if Giles isn't fit?

Strauss was thoroughly worked out by Australia and while he did score 2 hundreds, one of which was really in a dead innings, the rest of his performances were absolutely atrocious. Im almost certain that with their bowlers all being likely to be in form at home this time around, Strauss will struggle to score a single run(at least unless he makes drastic changes to his technique and temperament before then). As far as Butcher is concerned, Australia can certainly not go in with confidence against a guy who single handedly won a test against them in 2001 and a player who they have never ever manage to work out.

An alternative view is that Strauss got better against the Australians as the series progressed. IMO his 100 at the Oval when Warne was carving his way through the rest of our lineup was the best English innings of the summer. Well, 50/50 call between that and Fred's ton, anyway. Not sure about Aus never working out Butcher. If you're going to write of Strauss' 100 at Old Trafford as a dead innings, you might as well write off Butchers' innings at Headingley and Sydney because they were in dead rubbers. Beyond that, he had numerous let-offs at Syndey and, before that innings, I don't remember him doing a great deal during the series. No doubt Cricinfo will prove me wrong.

 

[tooextracool]

Going back to your selection, if Giles is fit he'll play of course, so it's not 100% accurate to put Panesar in the selectors' XI instead of him. Out of interest, what would your lower order be if Giles isn't fit?

I dont think Giles will be fit, so i think Panesar will play.Unless we can unearth a spinner who can bat before the Ashes, im afraid the lower order will be pretty weak, because our best bowlers dont seem to be too handy when it comes to holding a bat.

An alternative view is that Strauss got better against the Australians as the series progressed. IMO his 100 at the Oval when Warne was carving his way through the rest of our lineup was the best English innings of the summer. Well, 50/50 call between that and Fred's ton, anyway. Not sure about Aus never working out Butcher. If you're going to write of Strauss' 100 at Old Trafford as a dead innings, you might as well write off Butchers' innings at Headingley and Sydney because they were in dead rubbers. Beyond that, he had numerous let-offs at Syndey and, before that innings, I don't remember him doing a great deal during the series. No doubt Cricinfo will prove me wrong.

Butcher has had plenty of temperamental issues, his failures against Australia have always been poor stroke, ridiculous run out or something along this lines. For me Butcher played one of the best Aussie attacks in 2001,while Strauss played the worst. If he was having problems playing Warne, Warne, Warne and Lee then i cant see him succeeding against Warne, Gillespie,Mcgrath and Lee.