***Official*** Pakistan in England

[superkingdave]

I refer you back to my earlier point. How did we get on with 4 bowlers?

&, as for there not being enough bowlers in the day, surely there's merit in keeping bowlers fresh & chomping a the bit to get on? It's certainly better than the alternative of flogging them into the ground, especially when 3 of our seamers are under injury clouds to varying degrees.

an attack of Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar is no the same as Harmison, Hoggard, Plunkett, Panesar.

 

[BoyBrumby]

an attack of Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar is no the same as Harmison, Hoggard, Plunkett, Panesar.

No, true. For me tho I'd prefer not to overload Fred or Harmy in particular in (yes!) an Ashes year.

 

[Goughy]

I refer you back to my earlier point. How did we get on with 4 bowlers?

Yes but bringing in Flintoff would make it a far stronger unit.

 

[Benny2k1]

My England Team for Old Trafford
ME Trescothick
AJ Strauss
AN Cook
KP Pietersen
PD Collingwood
A Flintoff
GO Jones
DG Cork
MJ Hoggard
SJ Harmison
MS Panesar


Ok am going to get lynched for saying Cork, but he has been bowling well recently, got some pace and bounce out of the Old Trafford Pitch, and can add valuable runs at number 8 plus he is vastly experianced and can swing the ball.

 

[Goughy]

My England Team for Old Trafford
ME Trescothick
AJ Strauss
AN Cook
KP Pietersen
PD Collingwood
A Flintoff
GO Jones
DG Cork
MJ Hoggard
SJ Harmison
MS Panesar


Ok am going to get lynched for saying Cork, but he has been bowling well recently, got some pace and bounce out of the Old Trafford Pitch, and can add valuable runs at number 8 plus he is vastly experianced and can swing the ball.

Again my point about batting line-ups. With a lineup like that we had better not lose quick wickets.

Batsmen 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 have played a combined 229 Tests and scored a combined 6 hundreds and only 31 fifties. (with Flintoff contributing the vast majority of these). Thats averages out to be a fifty every 7 tests per player as a mid-lower-tail end unit.
Not inspiring when it comes to dealing with early setbacks and digging out of a hole.

6 and 7 should be quality batsmen and 8 better be able to bat as well.

EDIT- The 6,7,8,9,10 and 11 batsmen contribute an average combined score of 88.6 runs per innings. Its far too dangerous to have a tail this long.

 

[Xuhaib]

Not a bad position for Pakistan in the end considering how things went the first 2 days. Openers remain the main worry along with injury to Asif, for the next test. I would keep both the openers and give them one more chance and bring in Younis for Faisal who i must say batted courageously but Younis has to come and also Sami should go and i dont care who replaces him.

 

[greg]

Playing Flintoff for Plunkett should be a serious consideration. It was not a five man attack that made us so successful in the Ashes but a QUALITY five man attack. And with Flintoff, Jones and Giles all scoring runs there were no problems with the tail.

Selecting a test team is always about finding the best balance. And with Jones not scoring runs, no runs to speak of from the lower tail, and even Flintoff's batting form uncertain it is not at all clear that playing 5 bowlers is that best balance. It seems the only reason for it is because people think Flintoff will bowl too many overs and get injured.

 

[silentstriker]

Nine consecutive fifties against England. Is that a record?

 

[GIMH]

Interesting debate, I was thinking the other day about them dropping Plunkett for Flintoff. I can see both sides of the argument, but so many people have suggested Fred at 7 in recent months that I'm kinda sold on the idea. Still, what do I know? I KNOW NOTHING. But I'd still take you home.

Er anyway, I'd pick

Tresco
Strauss
Cook
KP
Colly
Bell
Fred
Jones
Hoggard
GBH
Monty

Almost as the same as Goughy, but Jones at 8 would be fine, his keeping has been very good lately.

 

[a10khan]

Why has there, during the course of this Test, been the repeated mention of Bell being dropped for Flintoff. It makes no sense at all. Plunkett is the obvious one. I don't understand why you would weaken the batting to add an extra bowler that is not needed.

My England Team for Old Trafford
ME Trescothick
AJ Strauss
AN Cook
KP Pietersen
PD Collingwood
IR Bell
A Flintoff
C Read
MJ Hoggard
SJ Harmison
MS Panesar

Before people complain about Flintoff at 7, he is not a specialist batsman. He has by far the lowest average of any of the top order players and having him at 7 would strenghtn the batting no end. Gilchrist batted 7 for Aus and that is part of what made them so good. It is not an insult for Flintoff to bat at 7.

Also the bowling would be Flintoff, Harmi, Hoggard and Panesar with a couple of others to fill in if needed.

Its a far stronger team than keeping Plunkett and dropping Bell

That is the lineup for England that I was abt to post. With Flintoff at 6, the batting looks a bit shallow. Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard amd Panesar looks like a very potent attack with Collingwood, Bell n Peiterson getting a few overs here and there. England will be making a mistake by going with any other lineup.

 

[DanielFullard]

Liam Plunkett managed to take the sting out of our attack with his limp, lame, poor bowling. When will the guy learn...He has to change his game at times. He does the same for Durham. Always the same line and length. He had to make the Pakistan bastman play and he simply didn't.

And I was baffled by the Sky commentators seeming sure that Bell would make way....Looks like I wasn't the only one

 

[a10khan]

Pak have to drop Sami, I just cant see anymore the garbage that he throws. For his own sake, I think Salman shd be on the way out as well! Is having a torrid time w/ the bat off late. Faisal shd absolutely. Has done well in his last few innings and looks good on the crease. Maybe they shd open with him? Or Akmal? Younis shd be back so he's locked in for the 3-spot. And I guess the warm up match will decide who shd replace Sami but my guess is that it might be Rao.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Well I said Panesar would have to take a 5-fer today and he took 2 wickets from 27 overs. Waste of space, at least Plunkett bowls wicket-taking deliveries in between the rubbish and can bat and field. He was also our best bowler for a lot of the series against SL which people have quickly forgotten.

 

[greg]

Well I said Panesar would have to take a 5-fer today and he took 2 wickets from 27 overs. Waste of space, at least Plunkett bowls wicket-taking deliveries in between the rubbish and can bat and field. He was also our best bowler for a lot of the series against SL which people have quickly forgotten.

From what i've seen Plunkett and Panesar's batting are about equivalent

Fundamental difference in their bowling is that Panesar can bowl all afternoon at one end allowing the quicks to rotate at the other end. Even if he doesn't take enough wickets (what were his two wickets a result of today if they weren't "wicket taking deliveries"?) that gives him value in a four man attack.

 

[Gloucefan]

Nine consecutive fifties against England. Is that a record?

First batsman to get nine consecutive international fifties against any one team apparently...

 

[Scaly piscine]

From what i've seen Plunkett and Panesar's batting are about equivalent

Fundamental difference in their bowling is that Panesar can bowl all afternoon at one end allowing the quicks to rotate at the other end. Even if he doesn't take enough wickets (what were his two wickets a result of today if they weren't "wicket taking deliveries"?) that gives him value in a four man attack.

Oh good, so we can look forward to more 27 3 93 0 type figures then and if he gets to bowl on an absolute bunsen we can look forward to him eventually sneaking the odd wicket. Brilliant. Brings a whole new meaning to bowling 'attack'.

 

[joeiscricketmad]

pakistan are a really good team but the captain inzy is getting old but still really good

 

[Gloucefan]

Oh good, so we can look forward to more 27 3 93 0 type figures then and if he gets to bowl on an absolute bunsen we can look forward to him eventually sneaking the odd wicket. Brilliant. Brings a whole new meaning to bowling 'attack'.

In all fairness he could/should have had 4 wickets today. I like Panesar, ok maybe he isn't the spinner we all would like to see but tough sh*t we don't have one in the mould of Warne etc. He's only played what 7 tests? give him time, if his bowling proves more usefull than Giles it's a step forward.

 

[Scaly piscine]

In all fairness he could/should have had 4 wickets today. I like Panesar, ok maybe he isn't the spinner we all would like to see but tough sh*t we don't have one in the mould of Warne etc. He's only played what 7 tests? give him time, if his bowling proves more usefull than Giles it's a step forward.

That's if the bowling also makes up for the fact that his fielding and batting is a lot worse than Giles... which might take some doing. It's the modern era, orthodox finger spinners are virtually extinct as a species in Test cricket these days because even the best of them will struggle to average much below 35 per wicket (unless they play WI a lot).

 

[silentstriker]

That's if the bowling also makes up for the fact that his fielding and batting is a lot worse than Giles... which might take some doing. It's the modern era, orthodox finger spinners are virtually extinct as a species in Test cricket these days because even the best of them will struggle to average much below 35 per wicket (unless they play WI a lot).

Maybe Monty will be to finger spin, what Warne was to leg spin.