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***Official*** Pakistan in England

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
Pedro Delgado said:
People seem to have forgotten Doctrove's involvment in this affair, clearly he saw something had changed with the ball too and backed the decision, or is he a racist too?

Regardless of what one might think of Hair, Pakistan bared their **** at the umpires, the paying public and most importantly the game of cricket itself on Sunday, and for that there is no excuse.
PPl seems to forget that despite Doctrove supervising the match its Hair, hair and Hair all over the news, wonder why??

Regardless what might think of Inzi not comming out to play, Hair brought the game into dispute once again, something which he has been doing that for since a long time.Its pathetic to see ppl finding excuse for a biased racist pigheaded umpire.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
What Bracken said, IIRC, was that ball tampering was fairly common in county cricket, and that the teams have a special throat lozenge thing which can make your saliva more effective in shining one side of the ball, and makes reverse-swing much easier to obtain. He was asked in an interview about Simon Jones and reverse-swing, and mentioned it.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Hair today, gone tomorrow — at least we hope so for sake of game
Simon Barnes in a hard hitting article against the Aussie umpire

SO NOW we know it. Officials are more important than players, laws are more important than people, one man’s vanity is more important than the pleasure of millions, principles are more important than common sense, intransigence is better than decency, vindictiveness is better than compromise, trouble is much more fun than peaceful co-operation and a fat man’s dignity is more important than mutual understanding between nations.

The question of whether or not Pakistan were guilty of tampering with the ball is no longer relevant. The point at issue is how a single man’s pigheadedness was allowed to disrupt the fun of millions, to give cricket a terrible, gaping wound and to add to the tensions between Muslims and white Westerners at this, of all moments in history.

He will also argue that he was standing up for the laws of cricket when he stopped the match and refused to restart it. If you read the laws, you will find that he is right. If you park on a double yellow line for two minutes outside the chemist to get some urgent medication for your dying wife, the policeman who fines you is also acting according to the law. He is also acting without humanity and common sense.

England and Pakistan have a history of trouble, Hair has a history of trouble. And trouble between Muslim countries and Britain is precisely what is to be avoided right now. (Huh !!)

The first decision for the ICC to make is that Hair never stands in another international match.

This series has showed us that white Westerners and Muslims can get on in sporting opposition, or, for that matter, on the same team. The shame of it all was that one man’s overweening vanity had to spoil it
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Slow Love™ said:
A few comments I'll add in response to some of the issues raised in the thread lately (so I don't do a Marc and post five or more times in a row):


1. How new is the playing condition agreed to between the sides before the test that says the ball will be changed and five runs awarded if ball tampering is suspected? Surely this regulation itself has to shoulder part of the blame for the incident. Had it not been in place, surely we would have seen this matter dealt with as it has been in the past, and the game would have at least been completed.

2. I think the "respect cultural differences" argument in this context is a bit of a furphy. If Hair genuinely believed that the ball was tampered with, he has the right to act upon it. You could argue that he should have reported his suspicions to the referee after the game, but the bottom line is that he'd still be accusing the Pakistanis of cheating. In any case, are some of us really arguing that different teams should be treated different ways if the same violation of the rules is suspected? This would be very wrong, IMO. You would hope that all teams are treated equally - can you imagine if certain teams got the instant five-run penalty, and others "more sensitive" got a hearing a week later? I suppose a valid question could be asked as to whether the rule would be applied the same for everybody, and whether events on the field would have been identical had another team been accused, though.

3. I don't think we know that Pakistan "decided to forfeit". It appears evident by now that both the Pakistan team and management, ECB officials and the match referee didn't know for some time that the game had been awarded to England. Hence the confusion when Pakistan came back out to play and it was reported that Hair wouldn't come out to continue the game.

4. Personally, I don't see a junior umpire such as Doctrove making a scene and putting himself in opposition to Hair. That would have created a bigger sh*tstorm than we already have.

5. In Afridi's interview, reproduced by SJS above, it is mentioned that Bucknor smells balls between overs (heehee). Could this plausibly present a criteria for which a charge of tampering could be made without it being witnessed or a suspect being named?
1. I am not sure, but that rule should be changed ASAP. If indeed the ball has been tampered with, the penalty should be more severe than that. And more concrete evidence should be demanded before coming to such conclusions. Otherwise, just a replacement of the ball will do.


2. The point about reporting to the referee is, Slow Love, so that there can be an actual hearing where the umpire says why he suspects foul play to the team captain and then the team captain explains what exactly went on and why the condition of the ball might have changed. It gives chance for a dialogue, a meeting where the issue can be trashed out. That is why Hair should have simply changed the ball without mentioning anything about this to Inzy (or maybe he could have just told him that he suspected such stuff and that he wanted the ball at the end of every over or something like that) and then went to the referee and then reported his suspicions. My whole point reg. this issue is that an umpire cannot come to such conclusions on an issue like ball tampering based on just suspicion and speculation. You need something more concrete than that.
 

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
honestbharani said:
The only thing that the ball CAN PROVE is that it went out of shape. How was Darrell Hair convinced that it was only due to the actions of certain Pakistan player(s)? How is THE BALL gonna prove that?
What they would say to that (I fink) is that the ball is sent over the ropes and into the stands fairly regularly, and is bowled into the rough, it receives scuff marks/natural wear-and-tear etc. It is checked irregularly ie at drinks, when a wicket falls, sometimes every over if the ump wishes. A change might then occur to the quarter-seam (in this case) which might be exacerbated during a fairly quiet passage of play (in this case - they judged that it had been exacerbated by means other than the rough/the one boundry scored ie ball tampering) which may cause suspicion of foul play (in this case) whereupon the umpire has to make a decision on the evidence of all the above and what is in front of him namely a changed ball with seam interference.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
SJS said:
“All the Muslim players are sensitive individuals who are very opposed to terrorist activities,”[/I] (relevance ??)
What a strange comment from Woolmer.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
Pedro Delgado said:
And Afridi's dance, how was this perceived? He is still a hero is he not. Doesn't seem to smell right, people are up-in-arms about the umpires but still support Afridi who has surely "soured an honourable nation" with his actions?
This doesn't make any sense what so ever, there might have been some blind followers of Afridi but most ppl in Pakistan never considered Afridi innocent in that incident.I regularly read their newspapers and after the incident Afridi faced a horrid time in Pakistan.Afridi was fined and banned for the offence and i didn't see ppl shouting for Umpires blood for that.

If Inzi actually cheated and is exposed by umpire like Afridi was, and his fans still continue to support Inzi for the offence then it would be criminal.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
The only bright thing that can come out from this ugly mess is that an umpire will think twice before he would brand someone a cheat.Also, even if ICC persist with Hair, he is unlikely to come up with another drama, i wonder if his role model in life is G Bush? he probably thought that like Bush he can just pass a judgement on someone without any evidence and can get away with it.
 

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
IndianByHeart said:
PPl seems to forget that despite Doctrove supervising the match its Hair, hair and Hair all over the news, wonder why??

Regardless what might think of Inzi not comming out to play, Hair brought the game into dispute once again, something which he has been doing that for since a long time.Its pathetic to see ppl finding excuse for a biased racist pigheaded umpire.
I don't think Hair reserves all his poor decisions for (want of a better phrase) non-white teams. He is a stickler for the rules or he made a big gaff (some sort of statement from either umpire would be nice ffs) either way he is past his best IMO.

But we all have to bare the brunt of the fellow, not just Asia.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
AVIJIT GHOSH

TIMES NEWS NETWORK


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NEW DELHI: Umpires, like actors, can often be fitted into slots: Simon Taufel the consummate professional, Steve Bucknor the maverick, Billy Bowden the comedian. Many cricket lovers look at the unsmiling Darrell Hair as the no-nonsense umpire who ensures the game is played by the book at any cost.

It's a nice, cosy niche Hair has. For a string of stormy controversies notwithstanding, he has quite regularly found a place in the ICC elite panel of umpires. At a time when traditionalists often lament how chuckers get away, he has positioned himself as the gutsy Australian who unflinchingly calls a spade a spade.

Such grandstanding though has taken the focus off Hair's rather uninspiring record as an officiating umpire. The truth is that Hair has never been in the same class as a Taufel, an Aleem Dar, or even a Rudi Koertzen. One reason why the Pakistanis threw such a huge fit on Sunday is because they were consistently at the wrong end of Hair's erroneous judgment throughout the series against England. Time and again, Asian teams have expressed their displeasure with Hair. And yet they have often been saddled with the big Australian umpire. Thirty of his 76 Tests have involved sub-continental teams - 17 of them Pakistan. Sixty-eight of his 124 ODIs have involved teams from the sub-continent, and 35 of them have been Pakistan games.

Sub-continent cricketers feel that the 53-year-old Hair, who played club cricket in Sydney as a fast bowler, has applied the rulebook against them even at the risk of appearing ridiculous. Once Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq was given run out when he tried to get out of the way of a throw by Steve Harmison that hit the stumps. The Pakistanis felt, and perhaps rightly so, that Inzamam was taking evasive action and Hair should not have referred the decision to the third umpire.

Now it appears that Hair is beginning to believe that he owes no explanation to anybody. He never thought it necessary to explain to the Pakistanis, who had tampered with the ball and where. For him, the decision - whatever the reason behind it - was beyond scrutiny.

The truth though is that none of Sky TV's two dozen cameras captured anything remotely suspicious. And yet Hair, the leader of the two umpires, had no hesitation in awarding five penalty runs to England after inspecting the ball, thus declaring Pak guilty of ball tampering.

Back in 1995, Hair was at the centre of a storm after no-balling Muttiah Muralitharan for throwing. Then, Sri Lanka captain Arjuna Ranatunga almost had led his team away. It was possible for the match to be forfeited but better sense prevailed and the game resumed.

It could have been a similar scenario again. But this time Hair refused to turn up after Pakistan, till then smarting under the insult, relented to play. Clearly, while Hair has the experience of 76 umpiring Tests, he has little wisdom.

In these strife-torn times, when Muslim distrust of the Western world is at its peak, the Australian's by-the-book approach has created another example of perceived injustice.
 

Yahto

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
honestbharani said:
The only thing that the ball CAN PROVE is that it went out of shape. How was Darrell Hair convinced that it was only due to the actions of certain Pakistan player(s)? How is THE BALL gonna prove that?
Yes, magical pixies did it. Who do you suggest did it ?
 

Yahto

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
honestbharani said:
OR they can change the sign to show that you are out?


Do simple solutions NOT enter ur head?
OR the Pakistanis can realise that being accused of ball tampering |= labelling an entire nation as cheats. Hows that for a simple solution ?
 

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
IndianByHeart said:
This doesn't make any sense what so ever, there might have been some blind followers of Afridi but most ppl in Pakistan never considered Afridi innocent in that incident.I regularly read their newspapers and after the incident Afridi faced a horrid time in Pakistan.Afridi was fined and banned for the offence and i didn't see ppl shouting for Umpires blood for that.

If Inzi actually cheated and is exposed by umpire like Afridi was, and his fans still continue to support Inzi for the offence then it would be criminal.
The point is Pakistan say this is a matter of honour/we will not play under Hair again, yet Afridi has done more than Hair will ever do to discredit the team and yet still plays/is worshipped.

If both he and Hair disappeared from the planet tomorrow I'd be nicely indifferent, to put it mildly.
 

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
Jono said:
So if you believe Pakistan tampered with the ball Yahto come out and say it.
Doctrove and Hair do and they are the ones that matter I suppose.

We will never truly know what went on I fear.
 

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