*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016

[Black_Warrior]

To be fair part of the historic accusations against Pakistan were probably a) because no-one understood how the **** they were getting the ball to reverse and b) my hunch is that there probably was a degree of ball tampering in 1992.

Now that everyone knows how to get reverse there's not really many accusations. The only time I can remember any accusations recently was Vettori making an allegation at the T20 World Cup, and to be fair, if you're getting the ball to reverse halfway through a T20 then what you're doing to the ball is probably not strictly within the rules.

Australia vs South Africa 2nd test 2014

 

[Black_Warrior]

Lol your hunch? Imran is on record saying it was so....

Yeah but his point was everyone does it and it only gets highlighted when his team did it. That's the issue here.

Look I can understand why reverse swing leads to these reactions..if you don't understand the game very well and are a casual fan (majority of people in general) and you see 160 all out from 130/2, you tend to think something fishy is going on. That's the explanation for the fans. As far as teams and cricketers are concerned, that's just them being sore losers when they are at the receiving end.

 

[Xuhaib]

I though the negative bowling on the 4th morning led to Pakistan's defeat in this test. Batting out a draw on Day 5 I believe is one of the toughest tasks in test cricket and if couple of the bats are out of form and tail is long I back the bowling side to win the game 8 times off 10 since all it takes is couple of back to back wickets to set the collapse in motion.

Also I find it hilarious when teams try to dry our runs and believe its a good strategy in test cricket with advent of T-20 cricket teams can switch gears any time and can cover up for lost time especially if its a 4 man attack which is tiring I thought it was pretty bizarre from Pakistan completely un Pakistan like and hence they paid the penalty.

I love Misbah to bits but I don't think he is a good captain for fast bowlers his usage of Aamir and Wahab in this series has been really poor ofcourse not having a 5th bowling option is not helping his matters.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I though the negative bowling on the 4th morning led to Pakistan's defeat in this test. Batting out a draw on Day 5 I believe is one of the toughest tasks in test cricket and if couple of the bats are out of form and tail is long I back the bowling side to win the game 8 times off 10 since all it takes is couple of back to back wickets to set the collapse in motion.

Also I find it hilarious when teams try to dry our runs and believe its a good strategy in test cricket with advent of T-20 cricket teams can switch gears any time and can cover up for lost time especially if its a 4 man attack which is tiring I thought it was pretty bizarre from Pakistan completely un Pakistan like and hence they paid the penalty.

That's pretty much been his strategy for the last 2-3 years. Rahat and Imran have been doing that in UAE.
His take on this is the exact opposite. He feels with the advent of T20, batsmen get impatient if they don't get runs and that's when they might give away a wicket. To be fair, Root did give it away, only for your favourite batsman and slip fielder to drop it

 

[Howe_zat]

Misbah got Pakistan right back into the game on that fourth morning when they picked up two quick wickets and should have had a third, not allowing England to get away meant that when the wickets fell they were still within reach of the chase. Even when Ballance was out England were effectively 180/5 and needed a big partnership to get them out of trouble, which they then got against a tired 4-man attack in the evening.

Pakistan had already given up their advantage on the third evening when Cook and Hales put on 120/0, they were much more aggressive then but the bowling ultimately wasn't good enough to make it count.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's weird because Mo is a "bits-and-pieces" cricketer. I used to really slag off Dwayne Bravo and Darren Sammy as test players but Mo is no better averaging 30 with the bat and 40 with the ball.

I think that slightly undersells him. For one, I think a high 30s bowling average is about as much as we could expect from the selection of specialist English spinners at the moment, so he's very near enough justifying that spot based entirely on his bowling even if he's not all that good at it. Secondly, it's a bit unfair to count his time opening the batting against him, and he averages 36 with the bat when he's not opening.

 

[Xuhaib]

I though the negative bowling on the 4th morning led to Pakistan's defeat in this test. Batting out a draw on Day 5 I believe is one of the toughest tasks in test cricket and if couple of the bats are out of form and tail is long I back the bowling side to win the game 8 times off 10 since all it takes is couple of back to back wickets to set the collapse in motion.

Also I find it hilarious when teams try to dry our runs and believe its a good strategy in test cricket with advent of T-20 cricket teams can switch gears any time and can cover up for lost time especially if its a 4 man attack which is tiring I thought it was pretty bizarre from Pakistan completely un Pakistan like and hence they paid the penalty.

I love Misbah to bits but I don't think he is a good captain for fast bowlers his usage of Aamir and Wahab in this series has been really poor ofcourse not having a 5th bowling option is not helping his matters.

In Uae we can afford to do it as we play a 2-2 combo not 3-1 hence less of a chance for the bowlers to tire also in UAE the spinners can get wickets in clusters due to helpful pitches for them and lack of skilled spin play from most non sub cont bats.In England its important we are constantly on the batsman the approach from Pakistan never made sense to me and I was not one bit surprised when Mo and Johny took toll of some very tired bowlers in last session.

 

[Captain_Cook]

For one, I think a high 30s bowling average is about as much as we could expect from the selection of specialist English spinners at the moment, so he's very near enough justifying that spot based entirely on his bowling even if he's not all that good at it.

You're probably right, although I think if Kerrigan hadn't been murdered by Watson at the Oval, he would have been a 30-34 avg spinner. Cook's poor (and extremely negative) captaincy at the time didn't help him and the nerves got to him, especially after Watson took his first over for 10 and his second for 18.

I don't think Cook's management of spin bowlers has changed a whole lot, it was clear he trusted Swann in a tight situation but I don't think he trusts Moeen to bowl long spells without a big-ish lead. I'm not sure how Cook would treat a young Mason Crane or Matt Parkinson. I'm not saying either will be test player, but you never know one of them could be the next Stewie MacGill. India will be interesting.

Secondly, it's a bit unfair to count his time opening the batting against him, and he averages 36 with the bat when he's not opening.

That's a fair point. Moeen's batting changes everything if we lack any superior specialist spinners (try saying that quickly).

 

[Xuhaib]

Misbah got Pakistan right back into the game on that fourth morning when they picked up two quick wickets and should have had a third, not allowing England to get away meant that when the wickets fell they were still within reach of the chase. Even when Ballance was out England were effectively 180/5 and needed a big partnership to get them out of trouble, which they then got against a tired 4-man attack in the evening.

Pakistan had already given up their advantage on the third evening when Cook and Hales put on 120/0, they were much more aggressive then but the bowling ultimately wasn't good enough to make it count.

It made sense to start like this but as soon as those 2 wickets fell gameplan should have been changed in Misbah back of the mind I think a plan to draw the game in case they score big was already playing hence the negative attitude.

 

[Furball]

Australia vs South Africa 2nd test 2014

Was referring to occasions where Pakistan specifically have been accused of ball tampering.

 

[hazsa19]

This ball tampering thing is gaining some momentum, albeit in Pakistan.

“English bowlers were tampering with the ball”, Dr Nauman exposes ICC’s double standards - Daily Pakistan Global

Pakistan fans are going crazy on social media, chances of someone officially coming out and saying something?

Based on some of the reaction you'd have thought England were hooping it ala Simon Jones To Michael Clarke 2005. They got the ball to go just a tiny bit, enough to be effective with some precise bowling. If my memory serves me Pakistan got the ball to shape a bit for short periods during the match.

 

[Black_Warrior]

In Uae we can afford to do it as we play a 2-2 combo not 3-1 hence less of a chance for the bowlers to tire also in UAE the spinners can get wickets in clusters due to helpful pitches for them and lack of skilled spin play from most non sub cont bats.In England its important we are constantly on the batsman the approach from Pakistan never made sense to me and I was not one bit surprised when Mo and Johny took toll of some very tired bowlers in last session.

I understand that but I think what a lot of Pakistani fans are missing is the lack of any movement the Pakistani seamers were getting. I think most people were expecting Amir to come here and blow them away, for Rahat to take a truck load of wickets playing for the first time in his life in helpful conditions. The truth is that the seamers just haven't bowled well. Amir has been the best among an average lot, and has shown the most consistency and discipline. The rest have bowled well in patches among a load of average to tripe. Rahat has been the most disappointing. He was expected to seam the ball around and bowl good off stump lines and he has wasted the new ball almost every time. Sohail had lost it by the end of 1st innings and never looked like being threatening on Day 4. With no real movement, and no reverse (Amir obviously has either forgotten or never knew how to reverse the ball), the only way forward was the UAE approach which was to bowl the 5th stump line and dry up the runs..and mind you this pitch has been called a UAE pitch by a fair many English commentators for the first 2 days funnily enough when Pakistan were on top, not after that

So in short, Misbah made the best of what was available, which is what he does on UAE pitches when there's nothing for the bowlers and had Hafeez not dropped Root, the game could very well have gone a different way.

There are a number of reasons Pakistan lost this game, but Misbah's approach on Day 4 is not even on the list given the options, resources and conditions that were available to him.
What I would criticise him for is his unquestionable support for Hafeez the batsman and Hafeez the 1st slip fielder, and his refusal in the last 6 years to encourage Azhar to open for Pakistan.

 

[91Jmay]

The pitches this series haven't really suited either bowling attack. They've been good batting surfaces, erring on the slow side. You could probably say they have had reasonable bounce for the most part (aside from Lords) which has helped nullify Shah as he loves to skid it on and hit pads/stumps.

 

[Niall]

I though the negative bowling on the 4th morning led to Pakistan's defeat in this test. .

Think it was day 3 which was the worst day for Pakistan in the test, should have got much more substantial lead, but ultimately only Misbah and Sarfraz contributed somewhat, Younis, the tail all brutally exposed. They bowled pretty poorly also that evening. I think they did as well as they could Saturday, 3 and a half bowlers against a stacked batting line up never easy, yeah the final session wasn't great, but overall the day wasn't as fatal as day 3.

 

[vcs]

Pakistan competed pretty well in the game, England were just too good over the last 2-3 days. You get the feeling Pakistan's batsmen have the correct mentality (Hafeez aside?), but just not the requisite skill and experience in unfamiliar conditions. Apart from that, there's not a whole lot to complain about their performance so far in this series.

 

[Furball]

I don't think they pressed home their advantage enough on day 2, or in the first innings in general. England probably should get credit for not allowing Pakistan to run away with it despite struggling a bit to take wickets, but if you're batting 50 overs longer than your opposition in the first innings you should probably have more than a 103 run lead.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

England unchanged.

 

[91Jmay]

Right decision probably. If Vince can't score runs at the Oval..

 

[Scaly piscine]

Right decision probably. If Vince can't score runs at the Oval..

That seems to have been the recurring theme before each Test.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Not a surprise. When you're winning, you can carry someone like Vince in the team and give him more opportunities. When you lose, that's when you analyse your weaknesses and that's when someone like Vince gets the chop.