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*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016
- Thread starter Grumpy
- Start date
Why?
Woakes also has the England record for most Test wickets in a series vs Pakistan
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Woakes is a gun and with him; Willey, Woods, Stokes, Finn, Plunkett I think our quick bowling options are looking decent at the moment.
Serious question as I honestly haven't paid that much attention to how the worlds ODI attacks are stacking up.......but surely as a group that lot are comparable with the rest of the best?? I mean clearly Starc is other wordly atm, but outside of him who else is tearing it up??
Serious question as I honestly haven't paid that much attention to how the worlds ODI attacks are stacking up.......but surely as a group that lot are comparable with the rest of the best?? I mean clearly Starc is other wordly atm, but outside of him who else is tearing it up??
Yeah, on a pace basis aside from Australia who are two tiers above the rest because of Starc + depth I can't really see that we are behind many other teams. Don't think we are ahead though either, just a lot of middling groups.
India spin options puts their attack fairly comfortably ahead of ours though taking everything into consideration.
Howe_zat
Audio File
Since people are keen on talking about our figures and records since the last world cup it's probably worthwhile to look at the bowling figures. It ain't pretty. Particularly the economy rates, not a single bowler has gone for less than five and most are well above.
It doesn't look good compared to the figures for the same period after the 2011 world cup, when Anderson and especially Finn were taking heaps of new ball wickets and we had Swann bowling well.
Basically the matches are higher scoring now with great batting records but we're not actually winning any more matches. in 2011-12 we were unbeaten in series at home and smashed world champions India. We lost to India away, but whitewashed Pakistan in the UAE. We even had Keiswetter striking at 100+ and inspiring articles on England's new found aggressive approach following the world cup.
So as promising as the current ODI side are they have some issues and aren't actually far off the usual course. I'm enjoying watching them (or at least watching them bat) and I'm optimistic. But let's meet ideas of them being the best England have been in this format with some heathly scepticism.
It doesn't look good compared to the figures for the same period after the 2011 world cup, when Anderson and especially Finn were taking heaps of new ball wickets and we had Swann bowling well.
Basically the matches are higher scoring now with great batting records but we're not actually winning any more matches. in 2011-12 we were unbeaten in series at home and smashed world champions India. We lost to India away, but whitewashed Pakistan in the UAE. We even had Keiswetter striking at 100+ and inspiring articles on England's new found aggressive approach following the world cup.
So as promising as the current ODI side are they have some issues and aren't actually far off the usual course. I'm enjoying watching them (or at least watching them bat) and I'm optimistic. But let's meet ideas of them being the best England have been in this format with some heathly scepticism.
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Howe_zat
Audio File
We are definitely coming into line with the rest, as far strategy and the nature of the matches go.
Four years ago we relied on the new ball attack to be aggressive and take wickets while putting up 'safe' totals with the bat - it's easy to forget how this was mostly successful before Cook lost form in about 2013-14.
Now we're attacking with the bat, and then letting the bowlers mop up in big chases that don't go so well because the opposition lack a Jos Buttler. It's a more popular way of doing things, but whether or not it's going to be more effective means to be seen.
I mostly think we need to improve the catching though. If we do that I'll be more convinced.
MW1304
Cricketer Of The Year
I remember we were great from after the 2011 World Cup all the way up to the home Champions Trophy in 2013, mainly thanks to our bowling attack which had been great in home conditions for a while, only losing the final in a t20 game. We still had that outrageously old-fashioned top three, which had actually been working for a while since pitches weren't so flat worldwide, but it was completely unsustainable. Especially considering the next World Cup was Australia/New Zealand, the warning signs were there for a while.
This time the batting has finally caught up to where the sport has been heading long term, and home pitches tend to be much flatter, but whether they will be able to actually keep this level of scoring up for another 3 years is a complete unknown. The style of play doesn't really mesh with consistency. More promisingly we seem to have a group of bowlers to rely on in a wider range of conditions. I do feel like we need to be trying out more spinners in the near future - I worry for Moeen's place in the long term.
This time the batting has finally caught up to where the sport has been heading long term, and home pitches tend to be much flatter, but whether they will be able to actually keep this level of scoring up for another 3 years is a complete unknown. The style of play doesn't really mesh with consistency. More promisingly we seem to have a group of bowlers to rely on in a wider range of conditions. I do feel like we need to be trying out more spinners in the near future - I worry for Moeen's place in the long term.
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Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Topley was good when he was in the side as well, but I think in bowling terms England are still definitely behind Australia (comfortably the best bowling side), South Africa (struggle with balance issues sometimes but still have quite arguably the best spinner as well as three quicks all IMO better than what England has to offer) and New Zealand (Boult is like a mini-Starc in ODIs when he's fully fit and Henry has started his ODI career awesomely too).
England's bowling rotation isn't terrible but I think they're let down by two things -- their spinners would definitely be in the bottom half of the top teams, and they don't really have that one gun ODI bowler that a lot of the other sides have to rely upon to an extent. Middling bowling and awesome batting still makes for a pretty good team though, particularly given the amount of young players in the side and the fact that the next World Cup is at home.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Llol Jordan. Can't b talking about quality bowling if we got Jordan opening the bowling
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I think they're just resting him because he's played the whole tour and the series is over. People were suggesting it should happen a couple of pages back. I wouldn't read into it as a dropping.
MW1304
Cricketer Of The Year
I don't get why they bother opening with him, it's so inflexible, let him bowl a few in the middle then save him for the death. Compulsory new ball overs for quicks who don't deserve them is just one of those dogmatic things in ODIs.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I agree with the sentiment but in this specific instance I don't think they've got a better option in the team anyway. Willey can't bowl from both ends and I don't think Plunkett or Stokes are particularly more suited to opening the bowling than Jordan. I think I'd have opened with Plunkett but it's much of a muchness.