***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2023/24

[Gob]

wut no

Gilchrist had a far better technique than Head does. And he moved his feet. Awful comparison

Yes.

When running between the wickets

Most of the other times they were glued to the crease while poking at the ball with the bat

 

[Starfighter]

I don't understand how Head works either but I don't understand how he hasn't bought himself the benefit of the doubt for years to come. It's not like he's been some flat track, **** attack bully who doesn't perform when it matters.

He's bought himself a long run in the team, but in the event he were to fail for a long period then let's not do the 'infinite chances' thing they did with Warner. He's one of the least concerning players in the team at the moment though.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, stability is good but IMO 'incumbency' gets taken too far. If he were to fail in a Warner-esque fashion and an alternative (could be someone like McSweeney) were to stack on the runs domestically, he shouldn't be given three whole years.

It's not that players need to be dropped after one series - that's how you end up with the types of shambles England has excelled in. But it seems at the moment that established players can't be dropped at all and the only way they exit the team is retirement. A few fifties shouldn't be enough to retain a spot, provided there are alternatives available. (At least with Warner they did have the excuse that all the alternatives were crap).

Right but that's always been true and never been a major impediment. He's 30, not 35, he's not about to fall off a cliff. I think we have a tendency to exaggerate just how quickly the "eye" goes after you're 30, it deteriorates but not that quickly.

I think it's partly that fast scoring eye players seem to decline earlier, often around 34. Richards and Sehwag did it, and Smith is arguably becoming another example. But they are usually still good at 30. That said Warner had certainly begun to slow his scoring rate down by that point, even though he was still scoring runs.

 

[Spark]

Yeah I'm not sure what TJB is talking about there. Gilchrist had a tiny shuffle across the crease, and then just ****ing whacked it from there through weight transfer alone, with minimal actual foot movement.

The cover drive at 3:00 is a perfect example. 5:52 is another. It looks like he's got onto the front foot there but all he's really done is efficiently transfer his weight forward. His actual feet have barely moved forward.

 

[GotSpin]

Do you mean the top 7?

How so? Now that Warner is gone, next imminent retirements are Khawaja and Smith. Rest can hang around for a while

I didn’t mean exactly at the same time. But everyone is over 30

I don’t think Head will suddenly fall off a cliff and he’s been in amazing form but I will be very surprised if he’s able to maintain it for more than 2-3 years

 

[Spark]

He's bought himself a long run in the team, but in the event he were to fail for a long period then let's not do the 'infinite chances' thing they did with Warner. He's one of the least concerning players in the team at the moment though.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, stability is good but IMO 'incumbency' gets taken too far. If he were to fail in a Warner-esque fashion and an alternative (could be someone like McSweeney) were to stack on the runs domestically, he shouldn't be given three whole years.

It's not that players need to be dropped after one series - that's how you end up with the types of shambles England has excelled in. But it seems at the moment that established players can't be dropped at all and the only way they exit the team is retirement. A few fifties shouldn't be enough to retain a spot, provided there are alternatives available. (At least with Warner they did have the excuse that all the alternatives were crap).


I think it's partly that fast scoring eye players seem to decline earlier, often around 34. Richards and Sehwag did it, and Smith is arguably becoming another example. But they are usually still good at 30. That said Warner had certainly begun to slow his scoring rate down by that point, even though he was still scoring runs.

I think the bolded is what I'm getting at rather than the idea that he deserves like three years of unquestioned selection regardless; there seems to be an assumption that he will have this long period of failure before long - like, in the next two or three years - and I see no reason to believe that that's true. Especially because the logic that he'll fail soon would have also dictated - and on here, did dictate - that he wouldn't ever succeed in the first place.

Whether he succeeds long term ironically depends on what we do with the openers more than anything else IMO; if the top three remains stable and solid then he'll be absolutely fine.

 

[GotSpin]

And opening with Marnus while pushing Smith/ Head a spot higher so you can fit in Green is a ****ing terrible idea worthy of infraction points.

Yes batting at 5 will technically improve Green's productivity (as opposed to batting at 6) but it will collectively bring down the productivity of all the other 3 that you change the spots of for various reasons. Terrible

The alternative is shuffling the deck around with a myriad of known failures while we have a generational talent sitting on the headlines just because some sensitive souls can’t be moved in the line up

If he doesn’t get some meaningful batting experience now then we’re going to be facing a line up of what?

Renshaw
Harris
Labu
???
Head (if he makes it after he’s 33)
????
????

 

[GotSpin]

I think the bolded is what I'm getting at rather than the idea that he deserves like three years of unquestioned selection regardless; there seems to be an assumption that he will have this long period of failure before long - like, in the next two or three years - and I see no reason to believe that that's true. Especially because the logic that he'll fail soon would have also dictated - and on here, did dictate - that he wouldn't ever succeed in the first place.

Whether he succeeds long term ironically depends on what we do with the openers more than anything else IMO; if the top three remains stable and solid then he'll be absolutely fine.

Surely the logic behind Head struggling in the future is that players who rely heavily on their eye tend to struggle earlier on rather than later?

 

[Starfighter]

I think the bolded is what I'm getting at rather than the idea that he deserves like three years of unquestioned selection regardless; there seems to be an assumption that he will have this long period of failure before long - like, in the next two or three years - and I see no reason to believe that that's true. Especially because the logic that he'll fail soon would have also dictated - and on here, did dictate - that he wouldn't ever succeed in the first place.

Whether he succeeds long term ironically depends on what we do with the openers more than anything else IMO; if the top three remains stable and solid then he'll be absolutely fine.

I'm not running with the assumption he will though even if one certain person is, I'm just making an example.

The top three not being solid is a virtual certainty considering we're losing Warner after the next test and probably losing Khawaja after next season. (I am expecting a push for Warner to unretire unless one of whoever they pick beats my rather low expectations). i think his best performances have often come after top order wobbles though?

 

[Spark]

I'm not running with the assumption he will though even if one certain person is, I'm just making an example.

The top three not being solid is a virtual certainty considering we're losing Warner after the next test and probably losing Khawaja after next season. (I am expecting a push for Warner to unretire unless one of whoever they pick beats my rather low expectations). i think his best performances have often come after top order wobbles though?

I do wonder when Khawaja will retire. Logic dictates next summer but he doesn't seem especially interested in hanging up the boots yet, and he's still performing, so...

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don't have a womb, but if Pat Cummins wants to try to impregnate me, he can go right ahead!

 

[GotSpin]

I do wonder when Khawaja will retire. Logic dictates next summer but he doesn't seem especially interested in hanging up the boots yet, and he's still performing, so...

I saw him in an interview say that being rested from shield matches has prevented him from being burned out

 

[Starfighter]

I do wonder when Khawaja will retire. Logic dictates next summer but he doesn't seem especially interested in hanging up the boots yet, and he's still performing, so...

He's really getting on though. He does seem easy at times to pin down and/or dismiss with the full ball or by going across him, but he's still scoring runs for now. India will (probably) be bringing an attack that will good exploiting those weaknesses, so he might be setting up for a bad series. But he's scored runs against them in India just recently, so maybe not. Heck, he might well do a Misbah and keep playing into his forties. You never know. He's really enjoying having a secure spot in the team, something he didn't have until very recently

 

[Spark]

I saw him in an interview say that being rested from shield matches has prevented him from being burned out

Yeah I had this mind too. He basically plays a couple of Shield games a season as warm-ups, some BBL games for fun, but otherwise is exclusively a Test opener with a singularly undemanding style of play physically as far as eye and exertion goes. Who knows how long he'll go for, he could easily hang up the boots next year, but it does seem like a pretty good gig for him.

He's really getting on though. He does seem easy at times to pin down and/or dismiss with the full ball or by going across him, but he's still scoring runs for now. India will (probably) be bringing an attack that will good exploiting those weaknesses, so he might be setting up for a bad series. But he's scored runs against them in India just recently, so maybe not. Heck, he might well do a Misbah and keep playing into his forties. You never know. He's really enjoying having a secure spot in the team, something he didn't have until very recently

Yeah it's the fact that he's clearly enjoying his cricket more than ever that makes me think that while this current regime persists, he's pretty likely to stick around while he feels he can still score consistently. Which he is, so far.

 

[Justo]

I do wonder when Khawaja will retire. Logic dictates next summer but he doesn't seem especially interested in hanging up the boots yet, and he's still performing, so...

While it could happen anytime I reckon he could hang around for 2+ years as long as his form holds up. He's in the form of his life in both Tests and Shield and has been our best bat away from home (if not overall).

He doesn't have a massive international career like Smith, Warner etc. so he's probably enjoying his time in the sun. This stint in the side is the only time he's made himself undroppable. The team is generally doing quite well and is as strong as its been in a long while. That said with our current depth the selectors aren't going to be tapping him on the shoulder anytime soon.

He also only plays Tests so he'll have a fair bit of downtime unlike Warner and Smith have had throughout their careers. He's also probably earning the best money of his career and while I doubt he's poor there's probably an incentive to make hay while he can.

 

[Starfighter]

Yeah I had this mind too. He basically plays a couple of Shield games a season as warm-ups, some BBL games for fun, but otherwise is exclusively a Test opener with a singularly undemanding style of play physically as far as eye and exertion goes. Who knows how long he'll go for, he could easily hang up the boots next year, but it does seem like a pretty good gig for him.

Yeah it's the fact that he's clearly enjoying his cricket more than ever that makes me think that while this current regime persists, he's pretty likely to stick around while he feels he can still score consistently. Which he is, so far.

The one thing that's concerning me is that even though he's scoring decently I don't think he's looked very good this series. On one hand it hasn't been easy batting conditions, but on the other hand Pakistan has been determined to start off bowling crap. But on the first hand again, they've often bowled quite wide which isn't conducive to fast scoring without playing dangerous shots.

 

[Spark]

The one thing that's concerning me is that even though he's scoring decently I don't think he's looked very good this series. On one hand it hasn't been easy batting conditions, but on the other hand Pakistan has been determined to start off bowling crap. But on the first hand again, they've often bowled quite wide which isn't conducive to fast scoring without playing dangerous shots.

Had he not played that knock in the second dig at Perth I'd agree, but that was a serious innings in really trying conditions, especially early on.

 

[morgieb]

Was @morgieb panicking about defeat when Pak were 200-5?

Fortunately whenever I get worried I look in the dreamy eyes of Captain Planet and stop being worried

Seriously though a little bit, but not as much as say against India or England. I'm glad I'm in your thoughts though

 

[Gob]

The alternative is shuffling the deck around with a myriad of known failures while we have a generational talent sitting on the headlines just because some sensitive souls can’t be moved in the line up

If he doesn’t get some meaningful batting experience now then we’re going to be facing a line up of what?

Renshaw
Harris
Labu
???
Head (if he makes it after he’s 33)
????
????

They should not be moved up not because they don't prefer it but because that will reduce their out put to the team for different reasons. Marnus because he is not in the best form, Smith because he isn't what he was and Head because older the ball when he comes on the better. Marnus, Smith and Head at 3,4 and 5 work well enough and given Smith is the oldest of the 3 and he isn't 35 yet so they are likely to be around for couple more seasons so its not very smart to screw around with that on the hypothesis that Cameron Green will bat better at 5 than he did at 6

Even if he ends up doing that, I believe the idea is Australian team performing at full capacity not Cameron Green performing at his full capacity all though the latter would help the former as long as it somehow takes place without reducing the output of the others

 

[trundler]

Yes.

When running between the wickets

Most of the other times they were glued to the crease while poking at the ball with the bat

Cricketer from TJB's childhood GOOD

Current cricketer BAD and WORSE

Khawaja > Love + Bevan + Law

 

[Anil]

generational talent

Not saying he isn’t talented or anything but what has he done so far in first class or international cricket to suggest he is a generational talent?