Noah
School Boy/Girl Captain
Nobody is disputing that. There are two things that everyone seems to have agreed on: (a) Flintoff was better than Watson and (b) Watson is very easy to hate.
The question is about their batting.
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***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2016/17
- Thread starter smash84
- Start date
The question is about their batting.
S.Kennedy
International Vice-Captain
I do not hate Watson. I just find him ordinary (compared with Fred).
TheJediBrah
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thierry henry
International Coach
Well, plenty of guys have batted in the top order and been mediocre at it but only Daniel Vettori has batted at number 8 and churned out top order player numbers...so there's at least an open question as to which is more impressive.
Sorry opening is the most difficult position to bat anywhere from 3-8. There's no two ways about it.
Burgey
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Don't necessarily agree with that tbh.
In tests it is tbh, its the reverse in shorter formats
thierry henry
International Coach
I was almost going to concede that opening by default is the most difficult job but at the same time, you hear players who bat at number 5, for example, get praised for their ability to rescue their team or grind their way out of a difficult position.
In Vettori's case, he did his best work batting at number 8 (or sometimes 7) in a poor batting team, usually as the last seriously recognised batsman. He was making genuine scores batting with the tail or the other last recognised batsman. Also, batting 7 or 8 in a mediocre team lines you up pretty well to have to deal with the second new ball.
So, in his case I don't think it's so obvious that he had an easy job or his runs should be discredited relative to a top order player.
In Vettori's case, he did his best work batting at number 8 (or sometimes 7) in a poor batting team, usually as the last seriously recognised batsman. He was making genuine scores batting with the tail or the other last recognised batsman. Also, batting 7 or 8 in a mediocre team lines you up pretty well to have to deal with the second new ball.
So, in his case I don't think it's so obvious that he had an easy job or his runs should be discredited relative to a top order player.
Burgey
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I still don't agree, in that cricket is so condition-dependent. You might open in conditions where it's absolutely the best time to bat - for example, first morning of a test on a pitch which begins turning pretty quickly. Might not happen all that often, but I don't think it's that easy to say opening is always the hardest spot. I tend to think three is pretty tough.
It's true, its condition dependant sometimes but on the whole its more harder and you're far more likely to bag a single digit score. Watson could've easily preferred to be a utility cricketer at 6, there was never a settled number 6 in the team and could've eased his workload. But he took one for the team.
srbhkshk
International Captain
Yeah, In general I think all positions are almost equally difficult except for maybe 4 which gets the best of both worlds (Old Ball , slightly tired bowlers , risk of batting with tail is low.) - but 4 is also expected to probably score the most runs along with 3 so I guess it evens out in the end. A 40 avg opener or No.6 will be acceptable but not a No. 4.
Burgey
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I think had he been fit for the start of the 06/07 Ashes where he was slated to bat six and be the fifth bowler, his career may well have turned out very differently. If he'd been able to come in behind that top five, it would have been brilliant for him. I always thought he was playing as if he had to prove himself all the time. If not to the selectors, supporters and team mates then to himself.
Compton
International Debutant
Nah over the course of any significant number of games it's easier to score runs in the middle order than it is the top 3.
The new ball always gives bowlers something and gives them plenty on a seaming deck. Plus openers always come to be crease with nothing on the board, they never get the luxury of downhill skiing.
The new ball always gives bowlers something and gives them plenty on a seaming deck. Plus openers always come to be crease with nothing on the board, they never get the luxury of downhill skiing.
KRIS 148
School Boy/Girl Captain
So do I and I am a proud Aussie. talismatic... a good despription of Freddie.
KRIS 148
School Boy/Girl Captain
CA destroyed Watson's reputation by keeping him around well after his used by date. He copped so much forum bashing.. We had a thread at The Crowd completely dedicated to this enigmatic cricketer. It was one of the most prolific threads on ths site.
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KRIS 148
School Boy/Girl Captain
Change of subject.
My India tour squad:
Warner
Renshaw.
Smith
Khawaja
Handscomb
Head
Nevill
Starc
Ahmed
Hazlewood
Bird
S Marsh, Cartwright, SOK, Lyon/Agar, Faulkner/Sayers. (Maxwell?) I have chosen Smith at #4 to break up the lefties at top of the order. Ashwin will have a field day otherwise.
My India tour squad:
Warner
Renshaw.
Smith
Khawaja
Handscomb
Head
Nevill
Starc
Ahmed
Hazlewood
Bird
S Marsh, Cartwright, SOK, Lyon/Agar, Faulkner/Sayers. (Maxwell?) I have chosen Smith at #4 to break up the lefties at top of the order. Ashwin will have a field day otherwise.
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