*Official* Pak In NZ Thread

[Tim]

Cumming has batted very well today. It's a good sign that after so many hopeless dismissals he's been able to pull through.

What Cumming has in favour ahead of the other batsmen tried is the fact that he does get a good stride in when he goes to play the ball. On the basis of today and some of the shots he's played, he's definately worth persevering with.

 

[Kent]

I still thought he looks pretty awkward when not playing lovely shots down the ground, but it's good to have an opener that doesn't try to bat in a pipe dream as Vincent and Nevin often do. Also good in the field and between the wickets.

He could be OK against the likes of Pollock and Kallis, although I imagine Ntini will fancy his chances of both hurrying him up, giving him nothing to drive, and cramping that cut shot. What's Nel like? Is Ngam still around?

 

[Tim]

As Martin Crowe suggested....your technique can go out the window when your down on confidence (as Tendulkar showed up until recently). If Cumming plays a few more innings like that then he'll start to relax & play some more shots.

At least Cumming tries to move his feet..sometimes Vincent & Nevin look like their feet are stuck in concrete at the crease...so that gives me some hope that if Cumming gains confidence he can be a decent opener.

 

[Tim]

The upside of having Cumming & Marshall in the team, is that they're both brilliant fielders inside the circle.

Sure Marshall failed today, but he saved about 20 runs in the field also.

I'm beginning to believe in Bracewell, after the horror of Queenstown, Bracewell said they were close to fixing some problems & that they would get things right...well things aren't perfect, but they've achieved what they said they wanted to do & you can actually see the confidence in some of the players returning.

 

[Jono]

I wasn't able to watch the game today till the afternoon and by that time the NZ/Pakistan game was over so I watched Sehwag clobber the Zimbabwe bowlers around, but from the looks of the scorecard the Pakistan batsman played quite poor. Was it great bowling by NZ, just poor batting or was the pitch something similar to the pitches last year?

 

[Tim]

I won't deny that the there was a bit of an advantage bowling first..but nothing like the advantages we saw when India were here last year.

Pakistan showed that they could score runs on it, by hitting 25 runs off the first 3 overs but then they lost the plot & NZ started to bowl very very well...especially Mills & Oram. They ended up strangling the Pakistan lineup & should have kept them below 100 if it hadn't been for an assault by Shoaib off an over from Cairns.

NZ were never in trouble chasing, they were like 85/0 after 17 overs so the pitch wasn't that bad in the end. Certainly not as bad as the pitch last year, where India scored more than 200..which was the only time in the 7 match series they managed to achieve that.

 

[Salamuddin]

So you're calling NZ substandard?

Every team has collapsed at times... especially in ODI's. New Zealand has quite a decent ODI attack IMO. Not meaning to sound childish, it's certainly better than India's.

The Kiwi attack is ok ....but away from their greentops I think they'll struggle to get good sides out.
Bond is an exception of course; he'll be dangerous just about anywhere but the rest of their guys won't be overly threatening.

They may improve though -- their attack is still young. BUT IMO, they really need someone to don the mantle of a strike bowler in the absence of Bond. Perhaps Butler given time.

 

[Tim]

I think Tuffey is getting better...up until last year, he was very poor overseas...but his efforts in India were outstanding & I think with more experience he can be just as good on a pitch with little help for the seamers.

Oram plays well in NZ, but is a little consistent overseas...I think he'll have a good contest with Flintoff when NZ tour England later in the year.
I think Mills has potential also, I think he could be a good test bowler & Butler needs a bit more accuracy.

 

[Salamuddin]

Tim,

What's the deal with Bond ? Is he going to be fit for the RSA series ?

Do you think NZl can win the series against RSA ?

 

[Tim]

I tell you what mate, after the 1-0 loss to Pakistan in the tests I thought we'd be fair dink annihilated by South Africa...but then I realised NZ lost that series because of one teriffic spell of fast bowling by Shoaib & since then New Zealand have really lifted their game in the ODI's, which they needed to of course...losing a test series & ODI series before facing South Africa would really be no good at all.

They're hoping both Astle & Bond will be back for the South African matches. The ODI's are first & im sure New Zealand would want Bond for the tests instead.
I think if we can get both of them back & the team is playing confidently we could go above expectations against South Africa.

 

[cbuts]

bond wont be back for the yuppies. at the moment they are trying to get him ready for the pom tour.

if players could catch we would of made the semis at the world cup. i think we are going tog et better under bracewell. butler is deffenatly a player with a big future. but i dont see how he can develop that when after bowling pretty well one game ur droped for the next two. mills is shocking, he throws it at 130 kmph. if ur gonna throw it at least get it down there at 150

 

[thierry henry]

At least Cumming tries to move his feet..sometimes Vincent & Nevin look like their feet are stuck in concrete at the crease...so that gives me some hope that if Cumming gains confidence he can be a decent opener.

Appreciate the sentiment but I can't agree about Vincent. He was the most extravagant mover of his feet in the NZ team (and I'm not just talking about walking back to the pavilion). I always felt he had a very agricultural defensive technique because he tends to throw the kitchensink (legs, arms, bat) at anything just outside off stump.

 

[Tim]

A relation of mine, who used to coach/manage a youth team featuring Hadlee, Wright etc back in their youth years said Vincent was the worst batsman he has EVER seen.

Now this is coming from a guy who used to bat against teams which featured Sutcliffe, J.R. Reid etc.

I don't think Vincent is the worst, but he's got alot of technical flaws in his batting for sure.

 

[thierry henry]

I hope you mean the worst "NZ international batsman" he's ever seen. I've seen some pretty poor performances in my backyard and I think Vincent would go ok against some of the guys Zimbabwe have atm.

I am Vincent's no.1 detractor and have been bagging him for ages but I wouldn't ever say his problem was "lack of foot movement" per se. He's a bit like Chris Harris- anything in his half is met with a massive thrust of the pad down the wicket in the general direction of the ball, and the ball usually ends up hitting pad instead of bat.

Like I said, I think his technique is just too agricultural. Anything wide of off stump he plonks the foot down the pitch and thrashes at. Anything around or just outside off he plonks the foot down the pitch and prods the bat at it. When the ball is on his pads he either plays a cracking pull-shot or on-drive, or gets bowled.

I think his problem is he just doesn't have the eye or the natural ability (which some players do) to play as extravagantly and loosely as he does at international level and get away with it. His level of talent as a ball-striker is such that if he really perfected his technique and worked hard on it he might become a competent international batsman, but he'd be more Mark Richardson than Adam Gilchrist. At the moment he thinks he's Gilchrist or Tendulkar or Sehwag, but he never will be- he simply doesn't have the natural co-ordination and ability.

As far as I'm concerned he isn't good enough to play one-day cricket, despite his fielding and athleticism. He doesn't have the ability to score quickly and not get out against international bowlers.

 

[Jono]

Mills playing instead of Butler is a disgrace. I really... REALLY dislike Mills' bowling. Against a quality attack he will get taken to the cleaners.

 

[Tim]

In all his ODI's, I cannot remember Kyle Mills being taken to the cleaners that often..and he's played against the majority of nations too.

Sure, we could put Butler in there...but i've seen Butler being taken to the cleaners by first class teams where as I haven't seen that with Mills.

Interestingly Mills has never been cited for his bowling action despite the fact that the ICC are clamping down on any bowler with a suspect action (who hasn't been cleared before)

 

[thierry henry]

Mills has an excellent ODI record and has always been tidy, as he was today.

I don't see why he can't succeed at international level, he bowls early-mid 130s which is fast enough (as fast as Tuffey if not a tad faster), he gets nice shape away from the batsman, and he is usually pretty accurate.

 

[thierry henry]

I've always felt Mills has a funny action, but I must admit that after watching heaps of slow-mo replays of him I definitely don't think he chucks.

And to be honest, after watching Shoaib on slow-mo over and over, I don't think he chucks either.

 

[Tim]

Mills has for the majority of his ODI career opened the bowling & also bowled at the death..so an economy rate of 4.27 is very good if you ask me.

 

[Jono]

I don't think he's threatening enough, and right now is the time for NZ to give Butler experience and built him up as a great strike bowler. As I said in the Shane Bond post, Oram, Butler, Tuffey and Bond isn't too bad a pace attack the way I look at it. I don't see any reason why Mills should be in there, but as I said earlier, I didn't see the game today so I can't judge on his performance against Pakistan.