**Official** New Zealand v World XI

[Ming]

An average of 36 in State cricket doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. I saw enough lack of confidence and technical deficiencies in the one-dayers he played to put me off him. Peter Fulton would be a much better bet if we are bringing a new guy in.

Fulton isn't a Test opener, and neither is Sinclair. What technical deficiencies are you talking about? Lack of skill against express bowlers? He's fixed that up now, and scored a good innings in his latest ODI against the fastest bowler in the world.

 

[Fiery]

No, the Aussies haven't been winning all their Tests because of a high run-rate. It's more than that.

What's wrong with a positive start in Tests? Nothing. But I certainly don't want to be 1/20 after 2 overs.

I certainly don't agree on Astle opening in Tests. Astle struggles against the new ball in the longer form of the game, and would be a sitting duck against the Aussies if he was thrown in first. You need someone with experience in opening, and Astle doesn't have any experience opening in ODIs. Sure you might say Fleming adjusted well, but Fleming was already used to coming in at 3 and coming into bat after only an over or two in Tests. Astle bats in the middle order, usually around 5 in the Test team. It would be stupid and foolish to try and convert him into a Test opener.

Still disagree. We have enough positive players in the middle-lower order in Styris, Oram, McCullum and Vettori who score their runs at a good rate. How do you know Astle "struggles with the new ball in the longer form of the game" when he hasn't been tried? He copes alright in the short game and I'm sure a different coloured ball doesn't make that much difference. Until one of these young guys like How, Cumming or Papps force their way into the side by sheer weight of runs we should be using Astle's experience at the top of the order. A series against Australian is not the time to bring in a greenhorn.

 

[Ming]

Styris wasn't dropped, he is being "rested".

I can see the new zealand bowling attack like this

Bond (When he comes back vs Aussie (I hope)
Tuffey
Oram
Cairns
Vettori


This is for ODI. And that is in no order. Styris can bowl a few

You need one more bowling option in there, possibly between Wilson or Mills

 

[Ming]

Still disagree. We have enough positive players in the middle-lower order in Styris, Oram, McCullum and Vettori who score their runs at a good rate.

Exactly for contradicting your own point. We have enough players in the middle and lower order to boost the run rate if needed without playing another power hitter in Astle at the top.

How do you know Astle "struggles with the new ball in the longer form of the game" when he hasn't been tried? He copes alright in the short game and I'm sure a different coloured ball doesn't make that much difference. Until one of these young guys like How, Cumming or Papps force their way into the side by sheer weight of runs we should be using Astle's experience at the top of the order. A series against Australian is not the time to bring in a greenhorn.

A series against Australia is not the time to experiment by transforming a middle order batsman into an opener either.

Astle struggles early in his innings in Tests with his lack of foot movement, and I believe it would get worse if he opens.

 

[Fiery]

Exactly for contradicting your own point. We have enough players in the middle and lower order to boost the run rate if needed without playing another power hitter in Astle at the top.

A series against Australia is not the time to experiment by transforming a middle order batsman into an opener either.

Astle struggles early in his innings in Tests with his lack of foot movement, and I believe it would get worse if he opens.

From what I've seen of Cumming I didn't think he looked up to it. He looked pretty ordinary in fact. I think we need to attack McGrath and Gillespie early to force them to bowl a different line and Astle would be the ideal man to do that. Otherwise it will just be a repeat of the fistings we received in the recent test series. Maybe when the Sri Lankans come back we can have a look at someone else but as I said before we just need the 6 best bats and find places for them in the team.

 

[southern man]

Have you ever seen Cumming play in the 4day competition?

 

[Ming]

I think we need to attack McGrath and Gillespie early to force them to bowl a different line and Astle would be the ideal man to do that. Otherwise it will just be a repeat of the fistings we received in the recent test series.

Funny that. Back in 2002, we did the exact opposite and we negated McGrath perfectly fine.

 

[Fiery]

Have you ever seen Cumming play in the 4day competition?

Yes, I've seen him on the outer domain at Eden Park a few times and in 10 one-dayers he is yet to convince me that he is of international class. He's nearly 30 anyway, shouldn't we be looking at younger guys? I know he's an Otago player Southern Man and I had 5 years Uni down there and love the place but you could be a bit biased perhaps.

 

[Fiery]

Funny that. Back in 2002, we did the exact opposite and we negated McGrath perfectly fine.

How many tests did we win?

 

[Ming]

We were the first side in many years not to lose a Test series in Australia back in 2002. We were a bit unlucky to not win the Test series, but that's another topic altogether.

He's nearly 30 anyway, shouldn't we be looking at younger guys? I know he's an Otago player Southern Man and I had 5 years Uni down there and love the place but you could be a bit biased perhaps.

How old was Mark Hunter Richardson when he made his debut?

 

[Fiery]

We were the first side in many years not to lose a Test series in Australia back in 2002. We were a bit unlucky to not win the Test series, but that's another topic altogether.

How old was Mark Hunter Richardson when he made his debut?

29 when he debuted against Zimbabwe. Rigor was a bit of a freak though. How many players have the mental toughness and discipline to play 3 shots in their entire career? There are a few cases of late bloomers like him and Andrew Jones you could point to but they are generally exceptions. I would prefer to see some investment in younger guys but to wait until we have beaten Australia in the upcoming series with the proven players we've got.
Cumming just doesn't excite me I'm afraid.

 

[southern man]

Yes, I've seen him on the outer domain at Eden Park a few times and in 10 one-dayers he is yet to convince me that he is of international class. He's nearly 30 anyway, shouldn't we be looking at younger guys? I know he's an Otago player Southern Man and I had 5 years Uni down there and love the place but you could be a bit biased perhaps.

Yes sure im abit bias. But Cumming is the form opener in the country, so deserves to have his name up there when it comes to the selection of the team.

 

[Fiery]

Yes sure im abit bias. But Cumming is the form opener in the country, so deserves to have his name up there when it comes to the selection of the team.

Actually, Jamie How is the form opener in the country with over 400 runs at an average of about 85. Cumming has an average under 40 this year in 4 day cricket which is about what his career average is. Hardly busting down the selectors door. But you do live close to eye-patch country.

 

[Ming]

Actually, Jamie How is the form opener in the country with over 400 runs at an average of about 85. Cumming has an average under 40 this year in 4 day cricket which is about what his career average is. Hardly busting down the selectors door. But you do live close to eye-patch country.

If you count this latest round of cricket, How has an average of 64 while Cumming averages 54. How's last big innings was over a month ago. I would say having a season average of over 50 is knocking on the selectors' door.

 

[Fiery]

If you count this latest round of cricket, How has an average of 64 while Cumming averages 54. How's last big innings was over a month ago. I would say having a season average of over 50 is knocking on the selectors' door.

I would be very surprised if they ever selected Craig Cumming again. He's been tried, failed and discarded already at nearly 30 years old. It would be a major back-foot step to go back to him.
Anyway, good debate guys and interesting to see what happens when the side for the Aussie series is named.

 

[rogerramjet]

I really wasn't that impressed with Cumming. If he was going to make it he would have made it by now (Marsellus Wallace, 1994).

Screw parochialism and chose the best player. The next in queue is either How, Fulton or Papps. Lets not forget Papps averages 51 in ODIs and has scored two fifties in his 4 tests.

Personally, I think it's a close call between them. How has had great early season form, Fulton is starting to get amongst the runs and Papps is proven at the next level.

It's nice that we have so many to choose from. Remember when Blair Hartland and Phil Horne were the best choice as NZ openers.

I think Papps should get it because he's proven and only lost his place through injury. Counting against him is the fact he is averaging only 5 in the State Championship. However, he is averaging 99.5 in the shield.

 

[rogerramjet]

I forgot to add I'm from Auckland so have no parochialism behind my decision. Although, with My Auckland hat on lets not forget Vincent is averaging 110 in the State Championship and he is only 26.

 

[Fiery]

I forgot to add I'm from Auckland so have no parochialism behind my decision. Although, with My Auckland hat on lets not forget Vincent is averaging 110 in the State Championship and he is only 26.

Neither Cumming, Papps Smear or Lou Wincent are up to facing the Ockers at the moment and they all have embarrassing names.

 

[bryce]

for all we know the NZ selectors may be planning to open with fleming and sinclair to make room for fulton and/or marshall, but if they are going to choose a young opener make sure it's one they are willing to persist with - people are saying that if they choose a young opener to face aussie they will loose confidence and may never be the same but if they are the long term opening solution the NZ selectors are looking for he will bounce back after the aussies and may even do well against them, if they don't think papps and how are good enough then use craig cumming as a stop-gap player until someone is ready to open at test level for NZ - he's got nothing to lose, whatever they choose to do there would of been weeks or even months of long and hard thinking going into it and i'm convinced they will make the right move.

 

[rogerramjet]

people are saying that if they choose a young opener to face aussie they will loose confidence

Vincent throws this theory out the window. He scored a century on debut and went downhill thereafter. We need to stop wrapping the youngsters is cotton wool and throw them to the lions. This lack of confidence talk is what separates us from the Aussies over and above the population disparity.