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***Official*** New Zealand in Zimbabwe & Zimbabwe/New Zealand/India ODI Tri-Series
- Thread starter James
- Start date
cric_manic
First Class Debutant
Thats ok
Good to see that H Marshall remains at 3.
I would rather have Vincent batting at 4 or 5, but it is understandable him opening due to injury. Hopefully if J Marshall looses form, or say if Cumming is proven to be of not international standard, Vincent isn't forced into the openers role. Looks like they would rather sacrifice Vincent's career there even he has proven he bats best at 4-5, not Fleming.
I would rather have Vincent batting at 4 or 5, but it is understandable him opening due to injury. Hopefully if J Marshall looses form, or say if Cumming is proven to be of not international standard, Vincent isn't forced into the openers role. Looks like they would rather sacrifice Vincent's career there even he has proven he bats best at 4-5, not Fleming.
Sir Redman
State Vice-Captain
If Mills is not 12th Man Bracewell should be made to swim home.sportychic33 said:
cric_manic
First Class Debutant
I hope they dont play Mills
A bowling attack of Bond,Franklin,Martin,Vettori and Styris looks like a very good line-up and will be better when Oram comes back into the team
A bowling attack of Bond,Franklin,Martin,Vettori and Styris looks like a very good line-up and will be better when Oram comes back into the team
cric_manic
First Class Debutant
When Oram is Fit i wonder who they will take out,i hope they take out Martin,I think Oram is a better bowler and there is enough cover if you swap a bowler for an allrounder
NZ has had trouble taking 20 wickets, and making Oram (who is tall, thus has a tendency to injure his back, and who was initially a batter who did little bowling) bowl lots of overs in tests (he will be the first to be asked to bowl more overs if needed, since he is quite consitent) would be a bad idea. Fourth seamer option in tests, and 10 overs in ODIs should be his workload.cric_manic said:
...........If Bracewell selects Mills, don't make him swim home. Make him stay in Zimbabwe, that would be much worser!
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
After averaging 49 in tests over the last 2 years, shouldn't Oram have walked into this test side as a specialist batsman? He's scored run-a-ball 20s and 30s since the Academy tour, which you could argue is no better or worse than averaging 25 in a season of county cricket like Styris has.
As for Vincent opening, I'd be feeling pretty good if I was Michael Papps. Cumming misses a golden chance to dine out and all they replace him with on tour is someone who's openly said dropping down the order was the key to his rejuvenation as a cricketer. Papps won't need to cope with any short balls in Sri Lanka next month, so pile on the runs and he's right back in the box seat I think.
As for Vincent opening, I'd be feeling pretty good if I was Michael Papps. Cumming misses a golden chance to dine out and all they replace him with on tour is someone who's openly said dropping down the order was the key to his rejuvenation as a cricketer. Papps won't need to cope with any short balls in Sri Lanka next month, so pile on the runs and he's right back in the box seat I think.
That's not the 12. That is the starting XI. I really don't give a crap who the 12th man is...although Mills seems quite a specialist at that job.sportychic33 said:
Oram's bowling worries me in Test matches, sure he's a great containing bowler in ODIs, but when you compare Oram's bowling to the likes of Flintoff and Jones, there is just no comparison. Oram can't consistently swing or seam the ball, and his pace is only in the 130s. Hopefully he can get his pace up, like Flintoff has done in the past season or so.
sportychic33
State 12th Man
There is no comparison between oram and flintoff in test match bowling, the both have different strengths yet they are always compared. Oram has said that he wants to get his pace up. Since he has picked up this injury he has slightly remodelled his technique which might mean that he won't be picking up his pace just yet, but I am sure that he will keep working on it.Ming said:That's not the 12. That is the starting XI. I really don't give a crap who the 12th man is...although Mills seems quite a specialist at that job.
Oram's bowling worries me in Test matches, sure he's a great containing bowler in ODIs, but when you compare Oram's bowling to the likes of Flintoff and Jones, there is just no comparison. Oram can't consistently swing or seam the ball, and his pace is only in the 130s. Hopefully he can get his pace up, like Flintoff has done in the past season or so.
Last edited:
cricket player
International Debutant
Also
heath Streak have been in good form in domestic level.
Plus hondo is also a good bowler along side with the spinner Ireland
I think zimbabwe has a good chance of troubling the new zealand batsman.
heath Streak have been in good form in domestic level.
Plus hondo is also a good bowler along side with the spinner Ireland
I think zimbabwe has a good chance of troubling the new zealand batsman.
Interesting comments from Fleming taken from here :
Lou Vincent has been handed back the poisoned chalice of opening after Stephen Fleming refused the offer.
Black Caps skipper Fleming said: "I'm not going to do it again. I think it compromised my spot too frequently and too easily. I've been batting No 4 for Notts and it's been going extremely well."
Attempts to manufacture the skipper into an opener were initially successful.
He scored a brilliant century in that role against England on their ill-fated tour last year but came badly unstuck when he was again thrust into the role against Australia earlier this year.
Glenn McGrath had him on toast for the first two tests of the series before he reverted to No 4 for the final test and scored 65.
He has no intentions of moving now, bluntly saying it is up to others to move and it was time for two guys to put their hands up as openers.
"I'm a middle-order player who has been batting in the top order and it's now my time to bat where I want to bat. It's not selfish, it's just a professional environment - that's my spot to play and there are other guys who have to push for spots higher up the order or lower down.
"They've got to make the changes. I'm set now and I'll stay at No 4 for hopefully the rest of my career. But it does leave competition at the top so we have some dilemmas there. We need to develop the top order.
And from Chris Cairns here :
I feel for Lou Vincent. It wasn't long ago he was telling the world he was not an opener, he was a middle-order batsman.
Now we're putting him back in a position we've already dropped him from once. I find that hard to understand.
Lou was not picked for this tour because of his ability to open; he was picked because he scored an excellent double century against Sri Lanka batting in the middle order.
Stephen Fleming has rightly said no to opening and Craig Cumming's injury makes it difficult but I would have thought it would have perhaps made more sense to open Hamish Marshall with his brother James.
Hamish has got the best technique against the new ball and you could have then brought Fleming in at No 3 and so on.
Lou Vincent has been handed back the poisoned chalice of opening after Stephen Fleming refused the offer.
Black Caps skipper Fleming said: "I'm not going to do it again. I think it compromised my spot too frequently and too easily. I've been batting No 4 for Notts and it's been going extremely well."
Attempts to manufacture the skipper into an opener were initially successful.
He scored a brilliant century in that role against England on their ill-fated tour last year but came badly unstuck when he was again thrust into the role against Australia earlier this year.
Glenn McGrath had him on toast for the first two tests of the series before he reverted to No 4 for the final test and scored 65.
He has no intentions of moving now, bluntly saying it is up to others to move and it was time for two guys to put their hands up as openers.
"I'm a middle-order player who has been batting in the top order and it's now my time to bat where I want to bat. It's not selfish, it's just a professional environment - that's my spot to play and there are other guys who have to push for spots higher up the order or lower down.
"They've got to make the changes. I'm set now and I'll stay at No 4 for hopefully the rest of my career. But it does leave competition at the top so we have some dilemmas there. We need to develop the top order.
And from Chris Cairns here :
I feel for Lou Vincent. It wasn't long ago he was telling the world he was not an opener, he was a middle-order batsman.
Now we're putting him back in a position we've already dropped him from once. I find that hard to understand.
Lou was not picked for this tour because of his ability to open; he was picked because he scored an excellent double century against Sri Lanka batting in the middle order.
Stephen Fleming has rightly said no to opening and Craig Cumming's injury makes it difficult but I would have thought it would have perhaps made more sense to open Hamish Marshall with his brother James.
Hamish has got the best technique against the new ball and you could have then brought Fleming in at No 3 and so on.
James
Cricket Web Owner
I really feel for Lou Vincent, has all the qualities to become a top batsman for New Zealand yet is just constantly moved around the order.
He's also one of the few nice international cricketers who haven't been corrupted by their own glory, **cough** **cough** Stephen Fleming & Jacob Oram **cough** **cough**.
He's also one of the few nice international cricketers who haven't been corrupted by their own glory, **cough** **cough** Stephen Fleming & Jacob Oram **cough** **cough**.
